Monday, June 11, 2012

Panthers add yet another H-Back

The Panthers got a commitment today from 6'4" 200 pound Tony Harper of St. John's Jesuit HS in Toledo, OH.  His other offers were Toledo, Ohio, and Akron.  Pitt has recruited him as an H-Back even though he mostly played safety in high school.  The Panthers were impressed with him over the weekend when he was at their camp, and they offered him today.

Obviously with his size and offer list, he is considered a bit of a project. Can't say I'm jumping for joy about another project and another TE-type, but Paul Chryst and Joe Rudolph have had great success with projects, so we'll see how it goes.

64 comments:

  1. I guess PC doesn't get a pass considering his track record. Lets not pass judgement til the end of next year. I find it pretty amusing that we have blog experts that think they know more than him in recruiting. I would never challenge someone in their field of expertise that is just cocky and arrogant. Can you imagine if it was reversed

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    1. Buc, rankings give you an idea of where a player is at physically and ability-wise. I am a little uneasy about this one just because he isn't a true H-back. Pitt really can't afford projects if we are trying to be good now, especially a class of them.

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    2. Maybe we should let chryst, you know... one of the best offensive coaches there is, decide who gets offered on the offensive side of the ball. Thats all im saying. Thats it. No matter how much i want to argue i wont.

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    3. The Trib (Dipaolo) interviewed Harper...
      Harper didn't play on offense during his junior year.. only safety!!

      Scary thought that Chryst and crew is pursuing this type of recruit.

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    4. Joe D

      Do you personally scout these kids?

      I think the Pitt coaching staff knows what they are looking for.

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  2. Sorry that's vague Buc. My point is Chris, as well as most others, who have been around football long enough can determine if a kid is gonna be a project or immediately compete for a starting spot. If you reread his comment, I don't think he was bashing Chryst and company's ability to evaluate players. Instead I think he knows Chryst can find an overlooked kid and make a ballplayer out of him, but there are so many of these you can have on a team because it takes more time/attention. Rankings reflect how football ready a kid will be out of high school and I think Dokes bases many of his opinions on that idea. And Joe D idk how fast Holtz 40 time is, but Harper's in 4.98

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    1. Holtz is a Tight end and weighs about 235... I don't expect TE to be fast... albeit Orndoff is FAST for his size.
      Harper is 195 soaking wet... and his 55m track time is 7.62... slow! can you imagine with 40 lbs more??

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    2. I don't think Buc was talking about me. I deleted a handful of posts in there with some bickering and I think he was referring to them.

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    3. Sorry didn't know!

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  3. Joe I saw Reese in the Pitt weight room this past weekend. Big kid for a 17 year old kid. If you have ever played football before you can look at a kid and tell if he can play. Defianitely looked like it. Same with parish. Wouldn't be surprised if he moves to defense

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    1. Most of Wisconsin's top draft picks over the years have been kids who haven't been highly ranked. We'll see if that changes with Bob Bostad out of the picture.

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    2. Trust the coaching staff plan to evaluate players. PC and company has had great results that have benn proven in the past. We get all caught up with the here and now and lose sight of what the player can look like 4 yrs from now. Great example of this jamie dixion's teams

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  4. If the kid is 6'4" then he probably has the frame to fill out. Redshirt him, put him on some protein shakes, get him in the weight room and he'll be 6'4", 225 before you know it. 6"4" 240 in two years. That's all you need to be to play fullback or defensive end. Quickness and strength trump speed in those spots more often than not.

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    1. A DE in the ACC needs to be 260's or so..
      Seems Chryst is enamored with height... of all the measurables.
      Of the 144 offers made so far (per rivals), only 18 are under 6'0". (13%)
      There are 24 players under 6'0" on Pitt roster including incoming frosh!! (27%)

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    2. 260? Really, 260? Andre branch, nfl draft pick out of clemson weighed 245 last year. He put on 20 lbs for the nfl but gimme a break.

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  5. I'd feel a lot better about being able to put size on this kid if the S&C coach wasn't a yoga instructor in disguise

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  6. lol...@Hrriquake. Wait, is that funny because it's true?

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    1. Todd Rice is into "flexibility"... lots of yoga type stretching..
      http://weightliftingexchange.com/smf/index.php?topic=3768.0

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    2. His philosophy definitely goes against the grain in S&C circles... and I generally hate his approach.

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  7. Chris, I was not talking about at all. I respect what you say. I enjoy your work.

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  8. Here's the link to Harper's highlights as a 16 year old sophomore runningback.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAAbt1ibPuw

    Looks to have plenty of speed for a player that age who is obviously 6-4.

    Even better... more than enough lateral quickness.

    More likely Chryst and Rudolph got a steal than anything else.

    PittofDreams

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    1. Was that video in normal speed or slow mo...
      sorry... stopwatch (FAT) doesn't lie.. 7.62 in 55m...
      FAT is track talk... Fully Automated Timing... meaning fully electronic...
      The video showed how slow he was... he was playing shotgun qb..

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    2. You do realize if it was slow mo it wouldnt look fast right? You cant even think up an insult correctly!

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  9. Jo dee - we get it. He runs a "7.62 in 55m." How many times are you going to type that? That's at least five times by my count. Do you have shortcut keyed into your keyboard?
    If, in three years, this kid turns into a legit ACC player, I want you to type these words: "I was wrong, his track time did not matter."

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    1. Will do...
      Are you saying... speed doesn't matter for a football player??
      And the reason the NFL conducts a combine??
      Track profile times is an accurate way to gauge someone's speed... quickness is a different story.

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  10. Very sad some of the stuff from Sandusky trial...
    why didn't he cop a plea!!
    smh...

    Gotta be some PSU commits rethinking committment...

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    1. Doesn't matter because they will just switch to Michigan.

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  11. I'm not saying it doesn't matter at all. All things being equal, you'd like the faster guy. I'm just not sure there is a direct correlation bewteen flat out straight speed and football playing ability, see, e.g., Jerry Rice.

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  12. Joe D,
    How fast did Harper run the 55m?

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    1. A lot can go into getting a bad time in track. Even getting slow times consistently can just mean he has some technical things to work on and are not exactly attributable to his football speed, which is a lot different than track speed.

      I do, however, agree that his 55m time is fairly slow. It does not mean he's slow on the football field though, and at 6'4 he can certainly cover a lot of distance.

      I don't know if I'd want him as an H back at his weight, but coach Chryst knows football better than I do.

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  13. he is definately slow, slow, slow. 7.62 in 55m is equivalent to 5.17 in the 40y

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    1. IF you all remember...
      Question: What does Pitt need to do in the 2nd half to get into this game against WVU?

      Answer: Run Faster...

      Dave Wannstedt!!

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  14. If speed was everything as it is according to Joe D, then Buddy Jackson at 4.31 on a bad day should have been drafted highly. I missed that selection as I watched the draft. Luckily, Dorin Dickerson's best 40 opened up the draft for him as a tight end. It ain't all speed. Speed helps. Football quickness is better, that is why they measure other short skills at the combine.

    I like this kid right now. He redshirts his first year and the Pitt coaches then get to decide where to put him with his body type and ability. He may end up on the Dline. I can see him at 6'5" 255 rushing from the corner, at 6'4" 235 as a MLB, or 6'4" possession WR if his speed doesn't improve ala Mike Shanahan. He might have great hands or he might be a Robert Sands type Safety at his size. Who knows. Trust the coach!

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    1. My point is...
      of all the players out there...
      do you really start filling your class with recruits like Harper...
      in my opinion... NO...
      he would be the type you wait until December and see how many ships are left over to fill a class.

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  15. "Who knows. Trust the coach!"

    Excellent comment.

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  16. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I can understand some of what Joe D is saying. First of all, I don't understand why Pitt needs yet another H-Back/tight end. They already have Scott Orndoff, J.P. Holtz, and Jaymar Parrish coming in, and Drew Carswell and Brendan Carozzoni are only sophomores. I understand needing a healthy TE corps in a Paul Chryst offense but this seems like overkill.

    And even if they did need another tight end, I kind of agree that there seems to me more sure things out there than taking a 6'4" 200 pound safety with MAC offers. If I were asked to name 50 kids that I wanted Pitt to land, he wouldn't have been on the list.

    BUT, Joe Rudolph LOVES to offer kids that he works with personally at camps, and he clearly saw something in him that he really liked. And he and Chryst have been pretty good in finding gems in the past.

    Bottom line, if he doesn't pan out then taking him will remain a head scratcher. But if he pans out then obviously Rudolph knows what he's doing. Either way, we really won't know for four or five years so there's no point in worrying about the outcome until we get to that time.

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  17. Committing and Decommitting..
    I see that as a trend in the future... maybe rules will change.
    Kids are worried to lose an offer.... so they committ.. keep looking until a better offer/school comes along. This freezes the college from handing out more offers for the position... and sends a signal to other potential recruits to go find another college.

    Haddock from Montour switched from Kent State to Temple.
    Challingsworth committed to Toledo... reading between the lines in Trib article... he didn't want to lose the offer. Toledo only wanted 1 WR and if he didn't accept, Toledo was going to move on.
    Pressure tactic.
    Sounds like a new strategy for MAC schools... they don't want BCS leftovers...

    Pitt already had 1 committ/decommitt.

    I've never seen so many committ/decommitt so early in the game!!!
    Heck, I've never seen so many committ this early before.

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    1. Decommitting is a rather unfortunate trend. In the past, it was usually never more than one kid and sometimes it was no kids. Now it seems like kids do it all the time.

      By the way, speaking of projects, Haddock and Challingsworth were two kids I was hoping that Pitt thought they could take a chance with. It wasn't the case- yet, at least.

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    2. As you know... I'm not a fan of wpial all-star teams.. ala Wanny..
      but, it seems, of all the measurables..
      Chryst and crew are enamoured with "Height"...
      you can't teach "height"..
      Heck, Aaron Donald would probably not get an offer from Chryst. Haddock is 6'0" I believe... Challingsworth 6'2" for wr.
      but hey, give the kid from OH that is 6'4" and slow an offer... smh.
      by the same token, I'm enamoured with speed (especially for the skilled positions)

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    3. I think Wannstedt's last class had four WPIAL players. His second to last had six. But don't let facts slow you down.

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    4. Your right Chris..
      I stand corrected... seems on average 1/3 of class was wpial.. 2008 was 9 of 19...

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  18. Harper 55m track time was 10th grade, never ran track prior.

    He ran 4.60 forty on June 3 at Toledo camp.

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    1. So every one of Joes posts bashing the kid for only being able to run a 7.62 55 and being "slower than a girl" and the post that proclaimed emphatically "That 40 time is BS!!!" when referring to the 4.60 forty he actually ran recently implying he had the real numbers on this kid were in fact all inaccurate? Shocking.

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    2. The Track times are the most accurate...
      they are FAT.... here is the link to the profile.
      if it were hand time, it get HT designation.
      http://oh.milesplit.com/athletes/1906716-tony-harper

      The only "times" I believe are those from combines or track!! those using verified methods and electronic. This kid is NOT 4.6!! You don't go from a 5.17 to 4.6 in 1 year!!!
      He has no posted combine numbers... where is your link to his combine that he did 4.6??

      Pitt has 100 offers outstanding whereby the kid didn't commit yet. Some quality athletes that are nearly at college playing size!
      It's June and Pitt is going after the Tony Harpers of the world... seems scary to me.
      smh

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  19. I was fortunate enough to play college football. My senior year in high school I weighed 210 lbs, 6'3 and my 40 time was about 4.75. I switched positions during spring ball to defensive end because I then weighted 265 lbs. I was better suited to play DE than linebacker. My point is this "kid" is not really even a senior yet. The coaches saw something in the kid. Remember, the position that you are recruited to play is not nessarily where you will end up playing.

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  20. well said eric! i think it easy to forget that a lot of these kids are in fact kids who are still learning techniques, gaining strength and developing into their bodies. i find it easy to believe that a he maybe ran a poor 55m 1-2 years ago and then ran a 4.6 40 this summer. huge strides are made from year to year in terms of ability and speed.

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  21. Mike White of PG is reporting Challingsworth got an offer from Pitt and decommited from Toledo.. lol

    Now, here is my concern of Pitt recruiting again!!!
    Why are they waiting so long to offer? The kid went to camp... Pitt wanted him at camp to show the coaches what he was all about.. Pitt knew he had offers... and it seems Pitt convinced the kid to decommit Toledo.
    That is Johnny come lately..
    That strategy may work on a wpial recruit who wants to stay home... but it's not going to work on an out of state recruit!!
    Challingsworth strategy worked.... he committed to Toledo forcing Pitt's hand!!

    I'm not saying Challingsworth is BCS worthy, etc... but to offer Harper at camp but not Challingsworth... smh. Don't get it.

    But, in Trib article, Challingsworth said Pitt had offers to 3 WR's... Foster, Boyd, another... so, by offering Challingsworth now... is that saying, Pitt won't land any of the 3??

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    1. I hinted on this thread yesterday that Challingsworth was going to be next. He's a good player. Very under recruited. No idea why Pitt didn't offer before but they did now so that's all that matters.

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  22. Harper ran a 4.60 forty at Toledo camp June 3rd, ran high 4.6 at Kentucky camp week prior. John McCallister, Ohio scouting guru, has stated he could be one of the best db's in the state of Ohio.
    Rivals/Ohio Preps recently ranked him in top ten in Ohio at the "Athlete" position. They stated "lack of 'elite' speed could mean a move to OLB at next level". Also stated "tall,long armed athlete with plenty room to fill out , good hands catches ball at highest point - frame suggest a move to LB or TE at next level".

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  23. If seeing is believing... Harper is not as slow as his times.

    Recheck his highlights as a sophomore. On the kickoff, that's Harper on the near side easily outrunning everyone else downfield.

    That is not a slow kid running.

    My guess, what he really needs to do is build up his strength. You can only run as fast as you are strong up top, especially in the forty coming out of a stance.

    Harper is a slow starter... not a slow runner.

    PittofDreams

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    1. It's a good point. We need to get guys that look good in shorts, are fast on tracks, and have good weight. Forget that playing football thing.

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  24. No bridge. I just spoke with friend in Toledo area whose son does some training w/ Harper and Thompson (Oh State). He was at Toledo and saw kid run & heard coach say 4.60. Said kid been working hard at staying low in start and leg & core strength. Said kid learned you can't ride 3 hrs to Massillon and run half hour later and expect good time. Said all he needed to do was run well at camp, many big schools including WV recruiting him.

    Done with this rant , don't know why such an attack on this kid who must have big upside the COACHES see.

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  25. Joe do you think these guys arew being timed with a sun dial?

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  26. Aside from starting late on recruiting, I feel like Chryst has been doing / saying the right things. As he becomes more comfortable as a head coach, I think his recruiting will pick up just like Jamie Dixon's has in recent years. Regardless, I will be happy with every commitment we receive because I value Chryst's opinion / vision better than those on this board.

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  27. Joe D by now I don't understand why you don't just start your own blog. It's got to the point where I'm deleting the majority of what you post. On your blog you can say whatever you want.

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    1. Great idea! Joe D. Be sure to let us know how to access your blog

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    2. I'm not in the camp that thinks Joe should be censored or anything like that, but he sure as heck could be more succinct! Damn, or his own blog works. -Gordo

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  28. I enjoy reading the comments and the subject matter. I was so frustrated by that one person, that I stopped reading for some time. Maybe you won't post my comment, but I applaud you for stepping up.

    Hail to Pitt, always.

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  29. What does Joe D do for a living that he has all this time to post? Chris, the more you can write the better.

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  30. Chances Asiantii Woulard picks Pitt? -Gordo

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    1. The new staff never recruited him so I'm guessing 0%.

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    2. Makes sense. Thanks. -Gordo

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