Tuesday, June 19, 2012

Updated look at Pitt football recruiting- Defense

Defensive line:

There is youthful talent in this unit but depth is a major problem.  Despite not having an impressive offer list, I ranked Aaron Donald extremely high when he came out of Penn Hills.  Happily for all involved, he made me look good by turning himself into an All-American caliber player in his first two seasons.  And the good news is he'll still have eligibility after this season.

The other three probable starters- Bryan Murphy, Khaynin Mosley-Smith, and T.J. Clemmings- are talented, and even better they will have two more years after this season.  If the projected starters produce, the future of the starting front four is very bright.  But depth is lacking.  Tyrone Ezell has yet to reach his potential but he'll also be back for one more year after this season so he still has a chance to produce.  LaQuentin Smith may be better off at linebacker, but was forced to move because of the depth problem.  He may eventually move back if the staff can add quality depth here, but if he doesn't at least he will have two more years after this season. Tackle Terrell Jackson and end Daryl Render are incoming freshmen and end Shakir Soto has committed for 2013.  None of the three appear to be instant contributors.  Giant 325 pound Tyrique Jarrett failed to qualify at Pitt this season but he's expected to return in 2013 after a year of prep school.

Clearly Paul Chryst has to add at least two more in this class and even more in the 2014.  The fact that Chryst is recruiting a few jucos at the position shows you that he understands he needs some help immediately.  California juco Edwin Delva is a tough and quick 6'3" and 295 pounds, and he wants to visit Pitt, but the competition is going to be tough.  The fact that he plans to graduate in December of this year makes him even more important because he should be ready to contribute immediately in the 2013 season.  Brooklyn juco Aaron Hush was at Temple for two years, entering at 210 pounds.  He's now 6'4" and 290 pounds, but has enough speed and athleticism that most schools are looking at him as a strong side end.  He doesn't have a redshirt available so he'll have to contribute immediately but that doesn't look like it would be a problem.

Three in-state linemen that the Panthers have a chance at acquiring are 6'2" 230 pound Erie McDowell end James Conner, 6'3" 265 Philadelphia tackle Justin Moody, and 6'4" 260 pound Eric Joraskie of Mt. Carmel.  Conner has a lot of talent but his eligibility will be a major question mark.  Moody is a player that was overrated by recruiting websites early on but still could be pretty good.  Joraskie, who has already visited, is one of the fastest risers in the state...EDIT (Joraskie just committed to Northwestern).  Ohio defensive end Antoine Miles and Illinois end John Strauser are lesser recruited prospects that the Panthers also have a chance with.  Strauser is Chryst's nephew.  Unfortunately, beyond that the Panthers have offered a slew of Florida and Georgia linemen that they look like they have no chance with at the moment.

Clearly, there is no sure thing star in the bunch of 2013 possibilities, but the best case scenario is that the Panthers can acquire another quality developmental prospect for the future and two jucos who can provide competition and depth immediately.

The good news is that the 2014 class will see at least two highly talented tackles in the WPIAL.  With a name like Brock Boxen, you would have to think he was made to play football in Pittsburgh (or be a character in an action movie), and that may well happen.  The staff has already offered Boxen and the early word is that Pitt may be the team to beat.  He's not the 300 pounds that Rivals lists him at (266 according to his father), but he hasn't even entered his junior season yet so he could easily put on 20 pounds or more before he enters college. That would make him even better because he's already very quick and tenacious.   Aliquippa's Jaleel Fields is a quick 6'2" and 260 pounds right now and he is also expected to be a major Panthers target.  With the Aliquippa pipeline in place he could easily be a Panther also.

Position status:  Incomplete.  Talent and depth is needed and adding Soto and Jarrett, while helpful, isn't enough. The two jucos would be huge for instant help and then one of the two PA players for development purposes would be nice, especially if Chryst can add on Boxen and Fields the following year.


Linebackers:

The good news is that there is some young talent here, and no seniors are expected to be heavily in the rotation this season, but the bad news is that there isn't nearly enough talent or depth.

Middle linebacker Dan Mason is practically a miracle in cleats, and theoretically he'll still be playing in 2013, but one has to consider his future as a football player iffy still.  One bad hit could cost any player his career but with Mason is may even take less than that.  That scary thought makes the lack of depth even more perilous.  Shane Gordon has not become a consistent quality player but he'll be back next season, and talented sophomores Todd Thomas, Ejuan Price, and Eric Williams will still have two years after this season.  Nicolas Grigsby is only a redshirt freshman this season so he could have a long and fruitful career.

Entering this season are Devon Porchia and smallish but tough Mike Caprara.  It's highly improbable that either will see the field this season.

But after that, there's not much.  And even those that will be in the rotation have not consistently proven themselves yet.  This unit could add at least four quality linebackers right now, even though an extremely strong 2014 WPIAL linebacker class could add a handful more.

One possible solution for the future is to return LaQuentin Smith to the position and move incoming freshmen Bam Bradley and Deaysean Rippy from safety.  But that may be determined by how well the unit does this year and how well the staff adds to this class.

As for the latter, it's not looking like a top prospect is going to be added at the moment.  Many of Pitt's top targets have already committed elsewhere leaving the new staff in danger of having the same linebacker recruiting problem that inflicted Dave Wannstedt's regime.  To make matters worse, they are often going to Pitt's two biggest recruiting competitors in Penn State and West Virginia.

As of now the Panthers have two lesser recruited prospects as possibilities in PA players Brandon Chatmon and Matt Galambos.

The good news, as I mentioned previously, is that the 2014 class in the WPIAL has some excellent linebacker talent.  The best of the bunch initially is Gateways's Brenon Thrift who could be a national recruit.  He is more into West Virginia than Pitt right now, as is Monessen's Justice Rawlins whose brother Chavas committed to the Mountaineers for 2013.  Expect Pitt to go hard after both, though, especially Thrift who will be in contention for the No. 1 spot in the state in 2014.  Those two already hold Pitt offers as does Washington's Shai McKenzie, a favorite of mine who could be very good.  Sage Curry of Beaver Falls and Nate Stone of Greensburg Central Catholic also look to be major prospects. Stone is fast, muscular, and mean, and he reminds me a lot of Dan Mason when he was at Penn Hills.

Position status:  Incomplete.  This position is going to be interesting over the next two years. Not getting enough elite linebackers hurt Wannstedt a lot and Chryst will have to be careful that he doesn't go down the same path. It may all come down to how well players like Price, Williams, Thomas, and Grigsby develop, as well as landing some of the quality 2014 class.  If not Chryst may be forced to make position changes something that Wannstedt was also forced to do.


Defensive backs:

Finally somewhere where there's depth already for the upcoming season. Two starters form last season- K'waun Williams and Jason Hendricks- will be back after this season. It's no secret that I think that Williams is an all-star caliber cover corner.  Lloyd Carrington, Cullen Christian, and Ray Vinopal will all see a lot of time this season, if not start, and all will have two more years after this season.  Lafayette Pitts and Roderick Ryles are two talented redshirt freshman and Jamahl Pardner, Trenton Coles, and Ryan Lewis will probably redshirt.  Then of course there are the aforementioned Bradley and Rippy who are two of the better prospects of the 2012 class.

But, you can never have enough defensive backs and Jarred Holley and Andrew Taglianetti will be graduating after this season.  For that reason, the staff is correctly looking to add more defensive backs for the 2013 class.

Who those defensive backs will be is in anybody's guess.  Other than the obvious- Clairton's athletic Titus Howard- the Panthers are not favorites for any of the multitude of players that they are looking at, but at the same time they are still not totally discounted from many.  Most of the targeted defensive backs are from Ohio, New Jersey, Georgia, and Florida, and have many offers, so it will take time to see if some of these players will stick around long enough for the Panthers to move up in their eyes.

Some of the more realistic possibilities from the lengthy list could be 5'11" 180 pound Florida corner Blake McClain, 6'3" 205 pound Ohio safety Marcus Ball, and 6'3" 200 pound safety Reggie Green.

Then there is the 2014 class.  Gateway alone has three major college defensive backs. Corners Anthony Davis and Delvon Randall, both 6'0" and 175 pounds, and safety Montae Nicholson, who at 6'1" and 190 pounds could be a national recruit will be major Pitt targets.  Right up there as far as talent is Woodland Hills teammates, 6'0" 185 pound corner Harry Randall and 6'0" 185 pound safety Trevon Mathis, as well as 5'11" 175 pound Aliquippa corner Travon Henry.  It's not often that the WPIAL has six major college defensive backs but that looks to be at least how many the region will have in 2014.

Position status: Incomplete.  The status here will change quickly with just two good additions for 2013 since there is good young talent and 2014 could be a major defensive back class for the program.







83 comments:

  1. nice review...
    I like Jorasike out of Mt. Carmel.. underrated... and comes from a great program.
    Serious need for players at DL...
    At LB... you would think they could come up with 3 good starters with all the LB's they have on the roster.
    I think Trent Coles will be WR...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Joraskie just committed to Northwestern.

      Delete
    2. Northwestern.... why Northwestern?
      That is a surprise.
      I guess he wanted Big 10... I knew PSU was high on his list but after his visit and some comment from the coach... he scratched PSU.

      Delete
    3. Everyone knows I like track guys...
      for the record..
      Joraskie was a track guy (field events)
      shot put over 46ft
      discus over 140ft.
      I've heard its good for OL and DL... helps with footwork and balance. lol

      Delete
  2. Hey Doke-

    Just out of curiosity, what are we looking like for the kickers?

    ReplyDelete
  3. OK, what did you do with the real Joe D?

    ReplyDelete
  4. Excellent review, Chris. Sounds like Chryst is going to have plan to just outscore the other teams until he can strengthen the D.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Good story Chris. How many years will Tyrique Jarrett have left? Does he lose a year?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. He doesn't lose a year. He'll have four years of eligibility.

      Delete
  6. What do you think Jarred Holley's playing time will be like this years?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't see why he wouldn't start and play as much as he can as long as he's healthy.

      Delete
  7. chris any idea how terry smith likes coach chryst and coach huxtable? feel like he controls his players a lot

    ReplyDelete
  8. One thing for sure... Trayvon Chapman likes Chryst and his stsff.

    “They make it feel like a home environment. I feel like I can trust those guys the most.” (Tribune Review)

    Can't wait until Chryst shows what he can do as a coach this Fall.

    He won't even have to offer. Players and their parents will be calling him.

    PittofDreams

    ReplyDelete
  9. Chris, your take on the defensive coordinator Huxtable? I've heard that he's not a happy trooper being at Pitt.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't know anything about that.

      Delete
    2. He took the job. If true, thats his problem

      Delete
    3. Where did you hear this?

      Delete
  10. Did you read the Rawlins quote in PG today? wtf!

    "I think their coaches are awesome. Coach Chryst is great," Rawlins said. "But I didn't like the location of Pitt's campus. My family thinks there's [possible] trouble near campus and I kind of agree."

    Why doesn't he just say... Pitt wasn't recruiting him as a QB.
    Mark my words, Rawlins won't see the field as QB at WVU. He is an athlete but not a QB.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Boy... PG is really lighting up Pitt today... here is a gem from Challingsworth... didn't this happen with Orndoff also? wtf Pitt recruiters.

    So he informed Toledo June 11 that he would be a Rocket. The next day, Pitt was on the phone with South Fayette coach Joe Rossi, wanting to know why he was going to Toledo.

    "I wasn't really frustrated, but I just didn't know what was going to happen with Pitt," said Challingsworth, who also had scholarship offers from a few other Mid-American Conference schools. "I didn't want to wait for something that might not happen and I knew Toledo was only taking one receiver in this recruiting class.

    "When Pitt called coach Rossi, they told him that they thought they had made it clear that they wanted me on their team and that I had a scholarship.

    "This wasn't known to my family and myself. They said maybe they didn't make it clear. So I guess maybe I had a scholarship and didn't know about it. It was kind of a misunderstanding on both of our parts. I would've never committed to Toledo if I knew I had a scholarship."

    ReplyDelete
  12. Chris,
    You may want to check this out Friday morning...
    I won't be back yet... but plan to go to the celebrity BB game on Saturday.

    http://www.timesonline.com/sports/revis-returns-to-aliquippa-for-youth-clinic-and-celebrity-basketball/article_7acb0bc8-3027-5962-ae70-c18bae210665.html

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Bout time someone from Quip gives back to that rundown community. With all the talent($$$) that has come out of there, they certainly fall short of helping their own.

      Delete
    2. They do... Ditka, Gilbert, Law, Revis all have given back in some way or another...
      I remember one year they won PIAA.... they made a call to Ditka... Ditka said how much... wrote the check.. I think it was to give rings or jackets to the players.
      Law sponsers free football camp for 9 years now...
      Bobby Babich did it a few times...
      The Gilberts are doing a lot in town..

      Delete
  13. Joe you think that is PG hating pitt or true story? I just think pitt didn't think pitt gave him an offer till then

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think it makes Pitt look foolish regarding recruiting... similar thing to Orndoff... he didn't know if he had an offer from Pitt... but was going to all these Pitt activities. Finally Pitt offered Orndoff "officially" after something in the paper.
      And I agree with you... Pitt didn't offer until they read in the paper he committed to Toledo!!!
      smh...
      C'mon Man!!!

      the Rawlins quote... I laughed that coming from a kid from Monessen!!!

      Delete
    2. Joe D.,

      You and I do not often agree on PC and recruiting, but on this one I must say, "What is going on?"

      How can TWO recruits say they didn't know they had offers from Pitt? If it happened once, I'd chalk it up to a misunderstanding. But now that it has happened twice I begin to wonder if there are others.

      Hopefully, PC and company have addressed this and it will not happen again. If not, I might have to start thinking... that... (dare I say?)... Joe D is... possibly... on to something....

      I've hold me judgement for a while on that.

      RKR

      Delete
  14. Not a good past few days for Pitt, as a few of their top targets came off the board. Regardless, HCPC and co. are, IMO, doing a nice job so far for the 2013 class and seem to have started early on some of the top local prospects for the 2014 class.

    I know Chapman is scheduled to announce July 1 and Foster's decision may not come for awhile but does anyone know when Johnson plans to announce?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I read somewhere Johnson said by mid-July..
      I've said before, the longer Foster waits... the better chances Pitt has.

      Delete
    2. ^^^Foster has said that he won't announce untill after the season. Is this your excuse for being wrong when he picks Pitt?

      Delete
    3. I know he is announcing at All-army game..
      but ya never know...
      I've said... the longer he waits... the better Pitt chances are. Many reasons why.

      Delete
  15. I think that is what JoeD is implying. That Foster is going to wait to make his decision and in his opinion (JoeD's) that is a good sign for Pitt. I have no inside scoop and just read the blogs like everyone else but I hope Pitt is the early favorite. As for Johnson, he is a much needed get for HCPC and landing him and Chapman would make for a nice couple of weeks in July.

    ReplyDelete
  16. oh no!! I agree on one thing that Joe said. Rawlins will not be a qb at WVU. Holgorsen will promise him an opportunity, but he won't get it. There is a tie-in with Holgorsen and Ford Childress, that being former nfl'r, ray childress. Absent any emergency injury situation this year, childress red shirt's (it will be called a penalty for his dui).

    With respect to recruiting and newspaper stories, this is a good learning experience for the new WR. I didn't read the article, but from the excerpts it almost appears like he didn't cover for Pitt and the staff which will not endear him to the coaches. But in the end, it is much ado about nothing. Let's get some big bodies in the fold.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Foster advised weeks ago that he is declaring at the Army Under Armour Classic or whatever the heck it's called after the season.

    I remain a proponent of two signing periods for football as with basketball. The high profile kids take chances with injuries if they don't commit early. Most coaches, unless you are Alabama or Ohio St, honor the commitment if a kid gets injured. That is what happened with Shady, except that Miami backed off after he got injured and Pitt did not. Worked out well. That is my recollection. Gotta split fellas, I am getting timed in the 55m today.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Huff, using a sun dial to time yourself?

      Delete
  18. It seems Pitt is in the lead for Titus Howard...also, Tyler Boyd has said that Pitt is recruiting him the hardest of any team. He says WVU, OSU, Pitt, and Penn St. seem to lead for him and maybe in that order.

    Would be bad to lose him with the Clairton pipeline...but to be honest, I see 2 things with him:

    1. Maybe he wants to go his own way and not follow the Clairton players of past and
    2. In all honesty, what has that pipeline produced for Pitt? It isn't like the Quip pipeline with Gilbert, Baldwin, Revis, etc.
    Even Hollins was a starting tackle for them last year, with Lay being drafted as well in the last 5-7 years

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Clairton hasn't produced anything... neither has Gateway...
      I would take Foster over Boyd..
      Boyd measurables are a concern.. he is 6'1" and only 170#.
      He didn't run track and no combine info!!! :)
      So, he must be slow... lol ;)
      He was used as an RB for Clairton... and Safety on defense.
      Played "A" ball... perhaps that matters but in this case Clairton has a very good football program.

      btw... the celebrity BB game by Revis on Saturday... may have Larry Fitz and Cam Newton. After the game, they will all be at WHIM.

      Delete
  19. Joe Bull, the other Clairton players were nowhere near the prospect that Boyd is. The other Clairton players that Pitt got were pretty much mid-major prospects. Boyd is definitely a high major prospect and should be a very good college player. If Boyd decides to go somewhere other than Pitt then Chryst is down to Foster and Boyd. If they get Foster, Johnson, and Orndoff then I can't complain because that's three legit star quality players, including the two best in the WPIAL. If they don't get Johnson and Foster then Chryst clearly failed this year.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No way - Chryst hasn't failed - he's taken a program that was a joke and is in the process of establishing credibility again. Anything he can add prior to the start of the season is gravy. Foster may wait to see how the team progresses - but if he commits prior to the start of the season, it isn't Chryst's fault. I

      Delete
    2. He may not fail as far as adding stability or coaching on the field, but if he loses 6 of the 7 major WPIAL players, there will be no doubt that he failed in recruiting, and Chryst would be the first to admit it.

      Delete
    3. I keep hearing from many different people that foster and pitt are definitely going to pitt. Johnson flat out says that pitts on top but foster is very hard to get a read on just because he prettty much literally doesnt talk about his receuitment. Foster and boyd are two different types of wide reciever. Foster is clise to 6'4" and is the kind of player that you can throw it anywhere and hell go get it and hes elusive-pitt doesnt have that. Thats why i think foster is more important than boyd. But, trust me, id take either one in a heart beat.

      Delete
    4. Foster and johnson, sorry

      Delete
    5. I've said before, if Chryst lands 3 of the 7 major recruits... that is a good day at the office. However, Johnson HAS to be 1 of them.
      Perhaps Boyd is not leaning Pitt because of Foster??
      Boyd is a major unknown at WR... plus he is skinny... so he will clearly red shirt as frosh.
      However, due to his athleticism, any team can find a spot for him. I just wouldn't pencil him in at WR just yet.

      Delete
  20. Again, give it a little time before jumping to conclusions about Chryst's ability to recruit or lack thereof.

    A couple of games into the season... an upset of VATech... and it will be a totally different world.

    PittofDreams

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That is what happen in 2008 I believe... when Pitt beat WVU... helped land Baldwin, Shanny, etc.

      Delete
  21. I totally agree with Anon. After what has gone on the last 2 years any decent players Coach Chryst get is a plus.
    Now if things were run smoothly over those years then I would agree with Dokish.
    It is just a different situation than any I have seen before and if we get a middle of the pack class I cannot blame the coach.
    But I honestly believe that if we don't drive him away, he will turn the program around, and quickly.
    He is gonna get some and lose some.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I disagree....
      The issues going on with recruiting is of Chrysts own makings... it has nothing to do with what happen the past 2 years!!!
      - The 2011 class fell apart and Graham couldn't save it... bunch of smurfs... albeit speedy.
      - The 2012 class... I would give Chryst a pass on... thank goodness Voytik saved the class...
      However, no excuses for the 2013 class!!!

      Delete
    2. No, uyoure just wrong. A ton of recruits have flat out said that they have interest in pitt but are insure because of whats gone on with the coaches.

      Delete
    3. Really PK..
      Name those 2013 recruits who have said that...
      and frankly, that is just excuses as to prepare everyone in case the 2013 class sucks!!
      Look at PSU!!! That is much worse than Pitt!!! seems it didn't hurt them at all.
      Look at OSU!!! Even with sanctions isn't slowing them down...
      Enough with the excuses for 2013...
      Just look at bumbling Chryst did in recruiting Orndoff and Challingsworth!!! If they were from Ohio or outside wpial, they wouldn't even consider Pitt anymore!! What we don't know is how many recruits outside wpial has chryst and crew turned off!!!

      Delete
    4. Pitt is going to have a hard time recruiting against PSU and OSU no matter what, simply because of the brand.

      Pitt has history and tradition, but also 30 years of disappointment and mediocrity.

      Thats a hard thing to overcome, and I think Chryst is doing fine right now. I do think we should land the best WPIAL players, but not getting them this year I wouldn't consider the end of the world.

      Delete
    5. That's just excuses. That's not how it works in major college football. A lot of programs have troubles, but jeez, in the big picture, Pitt has just been incompetent. Penn State actually covered up a child molester and you don't seem them making excuses. Give me a break with this giving Chryst a pass b.s.. There is no getting a pass at the level. The Pitt administration doesn't want to hear excuses and I'm sure Chryst won't be making them. He knows there is no grace period just because Pitt had an asshole coach before him. It's about producing now.

      Delete
    6. Ive saidthat if pitt doesnt get 3 of foster, chapman, johnson, and boyd thats unacceptable

      Delete
    7. Those are reasons(not excuses) and any opposing coach can use them against Pitt - lack of stability in coaching and poor attendance. However, if PC and staff show improvements (and he probably will) several of the non-committs may switch and sign with Pitt. No one is giving PC a pass - but a reality check is needed as it is tougher for Pitt to recruit due to the recent coaching changes. Like it or not DH is having a better recruiting year since WVA played so well against Clemson.

      Delete
    8. People can say Holgerson is a drunk who won't be there for long. People can say Penn State harbored a child molester. People can say Rutgers has a new coach. People can say Clemson played horribly against WVU. And on and on and on. All that matters is the bottom line. If Chryst lands Johnson and Foster like I think he will then he'll be fine. If he doesn't he's going to get a lot of criticism both locally and nationally. You can make excuses for him all you want but you'll be one of the few.

      Delete
    9. Chris, this repeated line of thought you use relegating any reality that causes someone to fail merely an excuse is very flawed imo. Using that line of thought we can basically bury anyone.

      Chris - If Chryst doesnt out recruit USC this year he is a failure!!

      Thinking Person - But Chris there are legitimate reasons that Pitt wont out recruit USC this year and 99.9% of them are not HCPC.

      Chris - Those are excuses!!! Excuses are for losers!!! Chryst is a failure!!! You dont see USC Texas or OSU making excuses!!!

      Obviously I exaggerated to illustrate my point, but cmon, things are what they are and just ignoring reality and labeling all of those realities excuses seems illogical and basically setting someone up to prematurely call him a failure.

      When someone has a lot of obstacles to hurdle and none of the obstacles are of his making I think its fair to give him a legitimate time frame to conquer those obstacles.

      Just pertaining to recruiting locally, kids around here have had many many years to form a perception of Pitt. Sadly, a lot of those perceptions quite possibly are not positive, especially the last couple of years which would be the most critical time to show stability and a positive reflection as this is the time kids would begin to evaluate potential future playing destinations more realistically. Not understanding that a total stranger a kid virtually just met yesterday might not be able to overcome those perceptions overnight with some kids seems silly imho.

      Delete
    10. Btw, to Joe D, putting a bunch of exclamation points after every sentence that you type doesnt hide the fact that nearly every one of those sentences range from highly debatable to flat out laughingly inaccurate or misleading. A+ for effort though.

      Delete
    11. If Chryst loses 6 of the top 7 prospects in the WPIAL this year, there is a 100% chance that he's going to be criticized mightily. That is reality.

      Delete
  22. Chris...
    Are Gateway players over-rated?
    Is it that Terri Smith knows how to market his players, etc.
    I have yet to see a Gateway player be a full time starter at any college. There were a couple 5star players that went OSU... one transfered to Duquesne I believe and the other is 2nd team.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Justin King started for 3 years at CB at PSU (and also played some WR). He made the mistake by leaving school too early for the NFL though. I think he has bounced around on 4 teams in 3 years or so.

      But besides him, you tend to be correct in that Gateway players have left a lot to be desired.

      Delete
  23. Is Boyd just another Desimon Green??

    ReplyDelete
  24. Recruiting and winning go hand in hand. If you win you get the recruits if you don't well you get fired just ask DW. The best formula for recruiting is just win baby. Unfortunately, DW had 1 major win upsetting WVU 13-9 in his timeas coach

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Pitt would be in such a better place if Wannstedt was still around. It's crazy to think of the D-line talent, Graham, Shell, Bill Belton. Not sure about the O-line, but 9-3 last season with Porn-stache and a potentially huge season in 2012.

      Pederson F'd us. I hope Chryst is the real deal.

      Delete
    2. I tend to agree with this. 9-3 is a good number for what Pitt, I think, would have averaged if Wanny had kept his job. 8-4 is pretty reasonable too.

      What Wanny wouldn't have done is win big games in pressure situations. But he would have won a lot more than he lost.

      Chryst hopefully will get us over that hump.

      Delete
  25. You losers that run down Wannstedt, are so lacking in character that it bothers me to post this. Not only is he the ultimate Pitt guy, but will be forever remembered for the historic West Virginia game. Arguably, one of the top games ever. Regardless of his won-loss record, if you bleed blue and gold, this man did his best and proudly represented his alma mater.

    If you post on this blog, then you definitely care about the Panthers. I really think that you are missing the point by running down all aspects of the program with your obtuse observations! Clearly your opinions are written for amusement, I just don't understand why you have to be so negative toward the team that you profess to root for.

    In all reality, if Pitt goes 3-9 this season, you may be heartbroken, as I will be, but you will still be posting next year. And the year after that, and the year after that, and the year after that....................

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dave was a great guy and a pitt man. I have no doubt that he gave all he had for pitt, but it was time. Under his tutelidge, pitt lost all important games they played, while 13-9 was great it meant nothing but bragging rights for a year, consistantly underacheived, and had the most criminals. Thats not acceptable. Pitts mistake wasnt firing dw, it was messing up with his replacement x2. I think chryst is the man for the job but to say what youre saying is absurd

      Delete
    2. The job search proved where Pitt ranks in terms of how coaches view the job. What a joke it turned into. Kids still are wary of going to Pitt due to what has happened since the day the Stache was fired.


      I don't remember many of those arrests in the news, either. Seemed like it was a reason to fire him since averaging nine wins in his final three seasons wasn't the cause.

      I'm in Chryst's corner, but Pitt shouldn't be and didn't have to be in the situation that currently exists. Kids want stability. Why doesn't Pitt understand this?

      Delete
    3. I'm of the mind that firing Wanny was a mistake. Like I said before he wouldn't have won a lot of big games in high pressure situations, but he would have won a lot more games overall than he lost.

      He was a good representative of Pitt, and I think he would have gotten the criminal stuff under control eventually.

      I have nothing against Dave, he's a bangup guy, but facts are facts and he wasn't going to get Pitt to the "next level."

      But then, I'm not sure much can get Pitt to that "next level" at this point.

      Delete
  26. I too was a DW fan. I thought it was a good hire at the time, a Pitt man and he did do a good job of recruiting (except for the O-line and LBs which I thought would have been his forte!) He wasn't able to win the BIG games (except the WVU game) and it seemed that the discipline under his watch was starting to become a bit lax. As much as I didn't care for the BS that TG gave us and the way he left, he did instill a sense of discipline. I give him credit for that.

    As for PC, I'm all for him and I'm ready and anxious for the season to start.

    ReplyDelete
  27. This is all good fodder, however I disagree with recruiting failures.

    At JoeD - "If they were from Ohio or outside wpial, they wouldn't even consider Pitt anymore!! What we don't know is how many recruits outside wpial has chryst and crew turned off!!!" - If is an elusion. Those folks weren't from outside the wPIAL, nor are they from Ohio. As far as folks he has allegedly turned off, let's start with Chapman and Clement. They hate the coach and that is obvious since one committed and the other is on the way. Please josephine, don't respond with 50m times and poor competition. You spewed without facts. Your posts are "if" based, which can gain zero traction, anywhere.

    There is no such thing as a "pass" year. As far as recruiting, we won't be able to complain about this years recruiting for another 3 years, so back off. IMO Paul Chryst is a man on a mission. He will succeed and Pitt is perfect for him. Blogs tend to throw kerosene on a fire which is not good. Would be interesting if Dokish made everyone sign an agreement wherein the commentor could not be Pitt negative for the first three months of a campaign.

    Finally, when did pitt fans start saying Pitt has been irrelevant for the last 30 years? That is false. Mediocre is .500. Pitt has exceeded mediocre many times. Unfortunately, they have also been under .500 too. That said, they have done well for the past 10 years,

    ReplyDelete
  28. Huff - it is all relative. Had OSU, PSU and WVU sucked over the last ten years then we could be jumping up and down for joy. But the truth is that they have succeeded way past what PITT has been able to do.

    That is who we are being compared to when discussing football programs and that is who we are competing (mostly) against for recruits.

    I have no idea what "irrelevant" means in context to college football and it has become a meaningless buzzword, but we haven't been on the national stage or in competition for a NC for a long time - with the exception of one game really.

    It is quite reasonable to say that we have been mediocre (i.e. "of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate) because it is true.

    You are thinking of average and there your point may be more correct - we are average in about every way all told which isn't a great accomplishment.

    ReplyDelete
  29. My point was not to rip DW but just show the pressure these coaches are under to win and recruit at a high level. I have no respect for SP on the way he handle/botched these hires. He got it right with PC but he ate a ton of crow and still is and rightly so. I am DW SUPPORTER. He was good for pitt and I was surprised they went in a different direction at the time bc of his loyalty and passion for the university. I will not be surprise to see les miles from LSU go down if they do not win a national championship this yearon the way he handle national championship game.

    ReplyDelete
  30. If I were Chryst... right now.. I'd be calling all those PSU committs.
    I expect a few to de-committ.
    I expect the NCAA to do something to PSU...

    ReplyDelete
  31. Just a side note: zach challingsworth has recently been ranked by both 247 and espn, both give him 3 stars and 247 ranked tony harper, giving him 3 stars as well. Not that it really matters but as chris said, chsllingsworrth is underrated so espn and 247 think similarly.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That is positive info. Good and productive post.

      Delete
  32. rkoh, that was my point. Pitt has not been irrelevant, but average. Some good years some bad, but overall average with the last 10 being slightly above average. Not nationally relevant mainly because the league association and that is where WVU made a name for themselves by winning a weaker conference more often than others.

    My bigger point is that you can't classify recruiting classes as failures until three years from matriculation. At that point, it will either be judged a good class or not so good. That being said when players that Pitt should or may get, matriculate to other places and fizzle, we typically don't look at those and say we dodged a bullet. That is why I continue to promote a more positive lean now versus negativity, because we all scream the sky is falling, but we just won't know for a few years.

    The PSU multimillion dollar PR machine has put all blame on Sandusky and they continue to try to distance the university from Sandusky when they are both to blame. Who doesn't see through the cover up and why aren't these stories about no institutional control not sent to recruits. So it was a double negative. Hopefully it turns into a positive for Pitt.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. How many outright Big East titles has Pitt ever won? BCS bowl games won?

      Not negativity, its facts.

      Delete
  33. Pitt wouldn't settle for mediocre from its academic programs. If UPMC were mediocre there would be Hell to pay. So we shouldn't settle for mediocre from our football program. Last number of years we went from great in the late 70s to very early 80s to mediocre for the rest of the 80s then fell to awful for most of the 90s. Back to mediocre to til now.
    Time to go big or go home.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Was UPMC elite in the 70's or 80's.....NO!! It is a process. Pitt Football has the right personnel to bring the program back to glory, where it belongs, but you just can't wish things to happen. Pitt's academics were mediocre in the 70's and 80's with certain factions pulling the academic reputation upward. In the 90's academic standards tightened across the board. It was a process toward improvement.

    As far as outright BE Titles, Anonymous is clearly from another school because choice terms such as outright are used by schools that haven't won outright national championships. How many outright or shared national championships has WVU won? ZERO. The facts are that Pitt did finish first in the Big East and it was the leagues fault more than anything. The BE didn't have enough football competing teams to achieve proper spacing between the mediocre and great squads. That was a failure by the league versus anything else.

    The pieces are in place to go big (except for Pederson). He is the weakest link in my opinion. He should be leaving Pitt Football and mens Basketball alone. He needs to get the baseball program, women's basketball, women's softball and lacrosse teams ready for the ACC. He has neglected those programs and now is not prepared for the ACC. Not a visionary in any way and for that, among other things, should be shown the door.

    ReplyDelete
  35. According to Rivals...
    So far... school recruiting ranking..
    PSU at #14
    Pitt at #53
    Curious to see where it ends up in February.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Of course achieving elite status in any field of endeavor is a process. My point was that Pitt is willing to pay the price to achieve it in academics and at UPMC. For too long Pitt tolerated mediocrity in its football program. We must be willing to do what it takes to become elite in football.
    I hope that the optimists are right that the pieces are in place on the coaching staff. At this point, we don't yet know. Our head coach's record is 0-0. I hope he wins big.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Titus howard committed to pitt

    ReplyDelete
  38. Chris, i read that dorian johnson was "wowed" by his psu visit and his mother is pushing him towards there. Truth?

    ReplyDelete