Monday, August 13, 2012

Panthers land another end

A day after landing probable defensive end Luke Maclean of Grand Blanc, MI, Pitt has landed another one in James Conner of Erie McDowell HS.  Conner is just 6'2" and 230 pounds, but he has good quickness off the corner.  Offers included Toledo, Bowling Green, Youngstown State, Eastern Michigan, and Ohio.  Eligibility issues are a major concern.

156 comments:

  1. "Eligibility issues are a concern".

    Can Mr Conner read and write? I would hate to see Pitt be forced to park him at some prep school for an entire year...plus a red shirt means that he could be a PLAYA in the distant future.

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  2. his smallish size shouldnt be a problem. add 15 lbs and he could be like bruce irvin, hopefully without people trying to kill him though.

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  3. A good friend of mine is a High School teacher at McDowell and says that it's a credit issue that will be resolved - he's been in summer classes. Apparently, not a grades problem just that McDowell didn't recognize some credits from another school. It's a bit hearsay but my friend is a Buffalo grad and could really care less about Pitt so I don't think it's BS.

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    1. Thanks...that's good news. Yes, Coach Chryst can recruit!!

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    2. Eligibility is a combination of grades and SAT scores... it is a sliding scale.
      Summer classes is typically for those that failed a course!!
      So, he may have eligibility issues..
      All that matters is what the NCAA Clearinghouse says..

      Delete
    3. I hate when Joe D is right and I'm wrong - Pittblather has a quote from the kid saying it's grades. I just hit up friend calling him an A-Hole and responded "LMAO - I teach at Prep now not McDowell"...bastard!

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  4. How many scholies do we have left to offer?

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  5. chris, do you think the questionable eligibility was a factor for why he didnt have offers? you amongst others seem to think hes pretty talented

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    1. His eligibility and by being from Erie. Those kids don't have a good track record. A lot of schools won't even consider them. But he's a kid with definite talent. I can see him maybe ending up at someplace like Milford if he doesn't make the grade. He's worth a shot. If he doesn't pan out, at least they took a shot.

      Delete
    2. Most kids that go prep school or JC...
      give up on the sport because they don't want to attend classes. Most colleges don't re-recruit as they don't think they will stay long in college due to grades, etc.
      Pitt has been lucky with Dion Lewis, Ray Graham, Lesean McCoy to name a few.

      Assuming this kid has a 2.0 gpa and assuming his classes pass NCAA clearinghouse for the credits.. he will need I think a 920 on his SAT... which rarely if ever happens.
      Ya never know, he may end up at Slippery Rock like Marzett Geter.

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    3. Don't hate on my hometown of Erie - Belitnikof, Bob Sanders, Mark Stepnoski.

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    4. Wow! Your prep school success examples are McCoy, dion Lewis and ray graham? Those don't even make sense. McCoy might have been an academic issue but I had always assumed it was a injury recovery thing. Lewis was at a prep simply for the better education and I don't think graham was in prep at all. Better examples would be: Larry Fitzgerald, josh lay, kk Mosley-smith, Todd Thomas, tutu ferguson , etc. I cannot actually think of a recent player that we sent to prep school that did not make it to Pitt to prove your point. There were a few like momo weekly that screwed up once they got to Pitt.

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  6. Chris, I could not agree more with you in regards to PC recruiting. Its to early to call it a failure but with who has ben signed I / we as Pitt fans can't call this a success either. This is another example of the can't call it a success. Lucky for PC and Pitt you don't pass or fail at midterm grading. That being said recruiting is the life blood of any program.

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  7. Playing in the ACC, recruiting at a MAC level. It's also marvelous that, in addition to having no offers of note and being really undersized, he also has MAJOR eligibility issues. Top notch, Paul Chryst. Top notch.

    And people actually think that PItt will compete in the ACC?

    Gonna be in the bottom third, every year.

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    1. LOL...
      and everyone is excited about a player that may never make it to pitt... it seems other major schools stayed away due to eligibility issues.

      Let me add... he wasn't on the track team either.. ;)

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    2. well if they stayed away due to his academics, not his talent, then if he does make it to pitt, he should be a good player.

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    3. You're still here?

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    4. It's not about what a person has done Joe D, but its about what they can do.

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    5. Real class act comment pittikrit. You can be unhappy with a commit, but to make your displeasure known with such an ignorant statement for a coach trying to stabilize a program and a kid who had a milestone day in his life takes some real balls man. I think after seeing how these commits fair on the field, then you can make such statements. You know it's all to proven the star system doesnt mean shit. And if you want top notch you are dreaming. Top notch recruits go to Alabama, who has won the last 2/3 NC's, not a program that has had 6 head coaches in three years. We will be lucky to get two or three top notch recruits. You need a reality check. And Chris before you give me the vandy argument, remember their coach has been around for more than 6 months and is not helping a program recover from turmoil.

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    6. English and grammar are like statistics. Changing the sentence structure can really change the tone of a sentence. From "Eligibility issues are a major concern." to "he also has MAJOR eligibility issues." If this fellow is a threat to not graduate, hence not eligible, due to lack of credits with 3.0GPA is a major concern. Having SAT scores of 400 and has a 1.5 GPA this is a Major eligibility issue.

      I do not know which one is accurate in this case, but unless you know stick to Mr. Dokish's quote.

      Delete
  8. Haha. Track.

    Please. Everyone knows the best football players were wrestlers!

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  9. Rivals mike says this kid is a huge steal. Has a great motor

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  10. Pitt is in a transition period from a program headed for a complete CRASH to a future in the ACC. Anyone who expects potential 4* and 5* recruits to come flocking to Pantherland is living in a wierd dream world.

    What's wrong with some of you that for unexplained reasons think that Pitt is Football Heaven. We have a long way to go. Yes, we can achieve stability and tremendous success, however, if you think that Pitt can recruit evenly against Ohio State, Florida, Alabama, etc, etc, you need psychological help!!

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  11. Some 4 stars would be nice. You are selling kids on the future and not the present. Therefore, there is no reason why Chryst can't recruit some elite talent. He won't be able to coach up every 3 star he gets. But, maybe some of these kids want to see results on the field first. Anyway, I'm disappointed in the recruiting results thus far.

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  12. Here is a quote from an article about Isaac Bennett, specifically for Joe D. Article is from Rivals.

    "All the change has been for the good. With the returning emphasis to flexibility and stretching to the off-season conditioning program, Bennett said he's gotten faster this summer, and he's already added five pounds to his 5-foot-10 frame in the first week of camp to reach 210 pounds."

    -Joe P.

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    1. It's all about the speed baby!!

      I hear the new S&C coach is a yoga instructer in disguise... flexibility and stretching!!

      Delete
    2. If Todd Rices S&C program involves super stretching routines and it ends up working I'll eat my shoe. (not literally)

      Yoga is fine, I do yoga, but it shouldn't be a key part of a football players routine.

      Power lifts, explosive lifts, plyometric running, resistance training.. Thats what it should be.

      This kinseology stuff is just crap, IMHO.

      If his routines work its because he's learned and adjusted to the needs of football over what he used to train.

      Delete
    3. Hurriquake - I'm not sure Troy Polamalu would agree with you.

      http://www.muscleprodigy.com/troy-polamalu-workout-arcl-1128.html

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    4. Your posted "disagreement" is actually in agreement with me.

      Everything he did there was either explosive or resistance work. The only difference is the fashion of the exercises is unorthodox, however that doesn't mean the science behind it isn't orthodox itself.

      I saw a lot of plyo (resistance) and a lot of jump squats and hard thrusts (thats what she said) which is explosive.

      Also keep in mind Troy isn't going to work out in the same manner as say a lineman or a linebacker. They need more bulk, more strength, which is where power lifting comes in. Its necessary for those power positions where pure strength counts for so much.

      I'm also NOT saying stretching is bad. If I spend 3 hours in the gym (and I do that 3-4 days a week) I spend at least 10 minutes an hour stretching, not including a 15 minute cooldown stretch afterwards.

      But to have entire stretching and yoga blocks in a football S&C program, which is what Pitts new S&C coach has done in the past based on his own interviews, is sort of ridiculous and definitely not along the current best science practices.

      Delete
  13. Isaac Bennett STINKS...he was only a 2* recruit!!

    I have to laugh my ass off when I read some of the nonsense on this board. Yes, I truly believe that we can and should be able to recruit some 4* talent this year and hopefully a solid representation of high level recruits next year.

    GIVE CHRYST AND PITT A CHANCE TO GET BACK TO STABILITY!!

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    1. That may be... because he came from a big time program and played sparingly as a Jr due to Sr ahead of him.
      He was a starter as a Sr.
      If you are not a starter as a Jr, you are going to be rated low.

      Delete
    2. isnore,

      While I agree with you 100%, I wish you good luck in getting anyone to listen. There are some on here who have already made up their minds regarding PC and you cannot get them to change.

      I can remember reading the message boards when Deon Lewis and Ray Graham committed. There were jokes about "midget" RB and plenty of comments about the number of "stars" each had at the time. Meanwhile the 4* QB we praised is now doing color commentary.

      No one knows how any of these guys will do until they actually, you know..., get on the field!

      Until then keep on preaching patients, brother, I'm with you!


      Delete
    3. In the state of PA...
      there are 8 4-star players... of which 4 are from the wpial..
      thus far, Pitt hasn't landed any of them... of the 4 who have yet to committ... 3 are from the wpial..
      boyd, foster, Johnson(2nd time around).
      If you can't land a 4-star PA player... you are not going to land a 4-star FL player.. just say'in.

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    4. Ray Graham was a 4 star player.

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    5. And he sat behind a 2* for two years...

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    6. Dion Lewis was a 3-star....

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    7. He sat behind a 3* for two years...

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    8. he didn't exactly sit behind lewis...he split lots of carries and it was pretty clear he was as good or better.

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  14. joe d-- just painful reading your comments-- ratings are typically because he didn't attend many camps or at the very least the right camps-- not only that you are trusting rivals-- the guy doing the rating probably played 3rd string punter in high school--so temper your reliance on stars..

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    1. Ratings are a lot of everything... camps, hs stats, etc.

      RShell never attended any camps!!
      Voytik on the otherhand... his father did a great job marketing him... coming from bumf, TN... he did camps, workouts, etc.

      Me, I'm big on measurables.... speed, quickness, strength, etc.... height/weight...

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    2. Me, I'm stuck on one attribute... the ability to play football and play it well.

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    3. RKR...
      So, a 225# Dlineman... playing Single A wpial... won championships... plays football very well (at that level)... was voted best Dlineman for Single A in wpial.
      is that BCS D1 Dlineman????
      sorry... I don't think so..

      Delete
    4. So what you're telling me is that he would NOT be a good college football player... Then I'm not interested, even if he were 6'6", 300 LB and ran track.

      What is so hard to understand about my statement? I want guys that can play the game of football and do it well. Maybe I should be more specific, COLLEGE football. I don't care what they did in high school, nor do I care how good they will be in the NFL. Pitt needs good CFB players, a lot of them!

      Delete
    5. Carvan Thompson...
      4-yr starter at Clairton...
      played every game at OL and DL..
      5'10", 215#....

      we don't know if they can play college football... we only have their HS resume!!

      Chryst won't sniff at an Olineman unless they are at LEAST 6'5" and 275#... in HS!!
      Measurables matter... it is an objective way of separating players of what you know historically makes a good college football player.

      Delete
    6. Why do the top ranked teams have the top ranked recruiting classes???

      Think its a coincidence?

      Delete
    7. I think that fact brings up a good question, it's a chicken-or-egg thing...

      Are players recruited by the top BCS schools because they are ranked highly OR are they ranked highly because they are being recruited by the top BCS school.

      For example, ND consistently has 4-5* players. Many people think that these players reach the 4-5* level AFTER it is known that ND is recruiting them. Is this kind of bias for real?

      Delete
    8. Every year?? You're just being silly now and disagreeing to disagree.

      Delete
    9. Wisconsin Anonymous. Every year there in the mid 40's in recruiting ranks. Yet they've been to consecutive rose bowls and win consistently 10 games a year.

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    10. Ok explain the other 100 teams that it doesn't work for? Also, they've been to 1 more BCS game than Pitt in the last 10 years. Not like they are a powerhouse.

      Delete
  15. You guys are clowns, not you RKR, to think that flexibility isn't a vital part or training for football. Do you think Troy P or Vernon Davis have the bodies they do because of powerlifting? You have noooooooo basis for anything you ever babble about. Can you please give us facts of your credentials to discuss anythig on this board?

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  16. Yes, but they are not the be-all-to-end-all. There are a lot of guys with good "measurables" that fail, while others without ideal size/weight/speed succeed. It is PART of the equation, for certain, but the only thing that really matters is the ability to contribute to the Pitt FB team.

    Nice job cherry-picking players to make your "point", whatever that is... So Clairton has some small OL, what does that have to do with Pitt FB?

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    1. You said...
      your only criteria was whether they can play football and do it well...
      There are lots and lots that meet that subjective criteria..

      Aaron Donald got passed up by lots of big time colleges due to his size..
      they forgot to look at his heart... his drive... his workout ability (his max bench is 450#.. highest of current Pitt players).. etc.

      Rushel Shell... offers out the wazoo...
      never attended a camp... never did a combine... why, he didn't have to.
      never lifted weights or did any type of conditioning until Feb of 2012!! why... he didn't have to...
      right now... he is trying to adjust to the speed of the game... will he catch up... only if he is dedicated...
      Everybody knows I've called him the next coming of Marcus Dupree.

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    2. COLLEGE football, Joe, COLLEGE!!! Not high school, not NFL. The #1 thing, the thing that is MOST important, the ONLY attribute that anyone cares about on game day is the ability to play football - specifically, COLLEGE football at Pitt. That's it, nothing else matters.

      Size/weight/speed factor into that ability, but those are not the only factors. Why is this so hard for you to understand???

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    3. rkr so i can get anyone off campus and see if they can play? what are you talking about?

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    4. When you are recruiting HS football players... you don't know who will be a good College football player...
      Me... I look at.. in this order...
      1. Measurables.. speed, quickness, strength, ht, wt.
      2. Work ethic.. do they hit the gym, student of the game.
      3. Film and if he came from good HS football program.
      4. HS Stats combined with level of competition
      5. Camp performances
      6. Other HS sports they played (track.. lol)
      7. What Other HS coaches say about the player.
      8. Intangibles, family, etc... good and bad...

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    5. Yes, you can. Walt Harris tried this when I was at Pitt, placed an add in the Pitt News looking of OLmen.

      My point is that I do not care what about a player's height, weight, speed, number of stars, high school accolades, what state he's from, if he ran track, or anything else like that. All I wan tot know is, can he play well at the college football level?

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    6. Joe D,

      Nice list. It must have served you well over all those years of professional recruiting that you've been doing. Remind us of some off the places that have paid you for your work, I seem to have forgotten them...

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    7. you seriously think pitt can compete for championships by getting guys off campus? put the bong down. This isn't 1970 anymore.

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    8. Yep, that's EXACTLY what I said....

      Did you even read any of the above posts? If so, please try to explain your logic to me. I'm having a very difficult time using what I wrote to reach the same conclusions as you.

      Delete
    9. RKR...Glad you cleared that up... NOTTTT

      All I wan tot know is, can he play well at the college football level?

      What the heck does that mean and how do you go about determining that in a HS player???

      And no... I don't expect Pitt to compete for championships..
      I expect them to be Top 25 year in and year out!!

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    10. haha thats a joke right? walk ons?? funniest thing i've read on here for awhile. I'm sure Alabama and LSU are loaded with walk ons...lol

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    11. Joe D,

      You have missed my point every time I have stated it, so I'll try this one last time (I'll type SLOWLY so you can read along...)

      I do not even TRY to determine if a HS player is going to be good. I know nothing about evaluation of HS player or how they project to the college level. I am NOT a scout, I have no skills in this area (just like you). I do not have time to watch any of these kids play in HS, nor do I care to.

      Let me be absolutely clear, all I care about is how they play on Saturdays once they are at Pitt. Don't care what the did in HS, how many stars, height/weight/speed numbers. None of it matters to me.

      I am NOT talking about the importance of PC and staff to be able to evaluate and recruit kids. Of course it is important that THEY have a plan and that THEY do this properly. But I don't pretend to know the first thing about how that is done. So I have to trust they THEY are doing these things correctly.

      AGAIN, all I can do is watch these guys play FB at Pitt on Saturdays in the fall. By watch the Pitt games I can determine if they are good COLLEGE FB players.

      That bring me full circle to my original post... the ONLY attribute that I care about is how well does he play college FB for Pitt.

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    12. Quit posting about recruiting if you don't care then.

      Delete
    13. I didn't say I don't care. I said I have no way of knowing if any of the recruits can actually play. I still look at the stars and, yes Joe D, the measurables. I read what professional scouts have to say and maybe watch a highlight or two. I hope that every player pans out, but I know not all will.

      I'd like Pitt to have the #1 ranked class with 20 5* star players every year. But even if they did, there would be no guarantee that any of them could play, certainly no promise of multiple national championships.

      So, I follow recruiting to see who will play for Pitt in the years to come, but none of the evaluations (or other measurables) mean anything once they take the field.

      What is most important is how does that player help Pitt win. Doesn't matter if he was a 2* or a 5*. Does he do his job at a high enough level to help the Panthers win?

      Does that help clear it up?

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    14. it does but we are debating recruiting now.

      no one has any idea which players will turn out but the facts show that the better the player did in high school, the greater the odds of doing well in college. these are facts, not opinions. 20 five stars still may only have a 50% success rate but 20 two star recruits may only have a 25% success rate. all anyone, (joe d too) wants is pitt to have the best odds of success. average seasons of 8 wins has gotten harris/wanny fired.

      During the season would be a good time to discuss how they are actually playing.

      Delete
    15. True, during the season is the best time to debate performance.

      However, my comments about recruiting were in reference to the rankings, specifically the "star system." I think it is flawed, and judging from your post, you understand that too.

      I want Pitt to succeed too, but ripping PC about his recruiting ability and calling for him to be fired in not very productive.

      I have been very consistent in calling for patients to see how PC's recruit play. I have not (and will not) comment specifically on a recruit (regarding if he's a good pick up or not) until I see him play.

      Delete
    16. Just to back you RKR, how much did stars matter with the classes that DW brought in here? Highly rated classes, put a lot of kids into the NFL, and couldn't win the the freaking BE title once!

      Look, I saw Dorin Dickerson play his entire HS career, and he could dominate a HS football game. Ended being a five star, must get recruit. What did he do in college? How about Shane Hayle, another five star?

      Until PC proves this theory that he's recruiting kids that won't succeed, why don't people stop considering arbitrary rankings that mean nothing once a kid plays a down of CFB?

      Delete
    17. "stop considering arbitrary rankings that mean nothing once a kid plays a down of CFB"

      YES, YES, a 1000 times YES! That is what I'm trying to say. Thank you, I was beginning to think I was crazy

      For all others please don't turn this into a recruiting VS coaching thing. It takes BOTH!!!

      Delete
  17. Have you ever watched Ivy League Football?

    Take a look this year if your cable system carries the games and don't be SHOCKED at the mobility and arm strength of some of the QB's.

    These are 2*/3* players who decided that a degree from Princeton or Brown and a ticket to law or med school was more important than being second string at Rutgers, Indiana, UCONN, etc. What they all have in common is athletic ability and brains.

    Many of these same players if given the opportunity would be far superior to Tino who I believe was a 4* coming out of Central.

    Watch some Ivy League games and you will see receivers who will in some cases amaze you. Is Ivy Football good? No, but sprinkled throughout the League there are REAL athletes who have often been improperly rated by the STAR SYSTEM.

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    1. How many times does this have to be said?

      Why do the top ranked teams have the top ranked recruiting classes???

      Think its a coincidence?

      Delete
    2. wtf did you not understand from what i said yesterday? they get the best players. yea, no shit. but they are not the best players because of their ranking! putting 5 stars after a guys name does not make him any better than you or me. he gets the stars because hes a good player. that does not mean that you cant get good players that arent highly rated and that does not mean that all of the highly rated players will be good. let me guess your responsee...
      "why do the top ranked teams have the top ranked recruiting classes???" its called reading comprehension... you learn it in 3rd grade...read what i said, think about it, and quit saying the same damn thing without understanding our responses

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    3. haha..ok sorry for making you cry. I'm sure you'd be mad if pitt got all 5 star recruits. Go get players from slippery rock, they're all good players...you guys are making joe d look good...smh.

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  18. There are 100's of thousands of college students and those entering college in the US. I am not entering those outside the US. As the leader of an organization with 5-8 people in charge of recruiting talent, there must be some criteria to narrow down that group to a manageable sample set to review. For football Joe D has one set of criteria. Whether is is the best or not, I do not know, but it is quantifiable as a starting point. Chris Dokish has his approach and seems to stick to football players in Highschool or JuCos. This is a way to narrow the field. Once narrowed you can figure out how to figure out if they can play CF.

    RKR how can you tell your dedicated 5-9 people, which 1000+ people, to evaluate to see if they can play college football?

    There has to be some criteria or filter, besides are they eligible to enter the university and do they want and think they can play college football.

    I understand that heart and ability are the key, but a HC and staff have limited time and resources.

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    1. Tom,

      Truthfully, I have no criteria. My point was that I don't care how PC chooses which of the 1000+ plus players. I do not try to evaluate these HS kids at all. I can look at the evaluation of others (like Rivals, Scout and ESPN) but I'm not going to come on here and pretend know anything about how well these kids will do in college.

      I basically have come to the conclusion that there is a group of really good HS football players, most of whom go to the top BCS programs. When there is a HUGE pool of decent HS players who, for the most part, turn into serviceable CFB players. Some of the 5* fail, some 2* become superstars, but overall most perform at expected levels.

      It is up to the coaches, specifically PC to evaluate the HS players.

      What I am talking about is what happens AFTER they have been recruited and have become members of the Panther football program. Can they play the game? That is the only criteria I have.

      Delete
  19. SI has a nice article on how Nick Saban grades recruits today.

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    Replies
    1. 3 Criteria...

      1. Character/Attitude/Intelligence
      2. Position specific critical factors
      3. Height/weight/speed chart.

      Delete
  20. Issac Bennett was a two star back that nobody else recruited. He's going to crush it this year. Yea, recruiting rankings matter.

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    1. There is a reason for that...
      As a Junior he was used sparingly... he came from a large district that produces D1 talent annually and had to wait in line for his turn.
      Started as a Senior... to late for high rating... and was overlooked...
      So, since he ONLY became a starter as a Senior, he must not be any good according to those who rate players...

      Delete
  21. Allow for some clarity here. As an example to debunk the Jody philosophy of recruiting, Dorin Dickerson was a 5*. Had all the measurables, but wasn't a great player because he was a tweener at different positions and just didn't have a natural fit. Stars really don't guarantee a thing. Each recruiting class is successful if you can find 4-5 starters.

    The Alabama, LSU and ND's just have more 4 and 5 stars to choose from to get the yearly 4-5 starters. That is why I chuckle at the doom and gloomers about recruiting every time a 2 or 3 star is inked. You only need to find 4-5 starters out of each recruiting class. Pitt just can't afford to miss on their starters because there is usually a dropoff that can't be filled or covered for as much as an Alabama. For your reference the LSU safety was also being pushed for playing time by his heir apparent, that is the kind of depth they have.

    You all got to go away from stars and must gets. Let the coach, coach. Part of coaching is talent evaluation and development. If he doesn't win enough after 5 years, then gripe. For now, support the fella. He is going to be successful. Trust it!!

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    1. Excellent comment, Huff

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    2. I for one am not worried about how many "stars" these kids have while still playing HS football for many reasons.

      First you need to take into account what camps these kids go to, which goes a long way towards indicating how many stars they are rated. Considering that these camps are essentially football in shorts, as Mike Tomlin is known to say, it doesn't prove much other than raw athletic ability which doesn't always translate to being able to play in pads.

      Second, you have to take into consideration the competition these kids face every week. A kid that faces good competition every week and has the physcial projection but not the stats usually is 2-3 stars. Doesn't mean he can't play a high D-1 level, just means he doesn't dominate his competition at that time, and realistically, is a 17-18 year old kid that still has time to grow physically and receive much better instruction at the college level.

      The programs that load up with 4-5 stars every year end up cutting about half of them loose after two years because these kids are for the most part over rated and end up playing behind kids that were not rated as high in HS. The stars are nice for recruiting discussion, but realistically you're still looking at the same kind of athlete that can be drafted high in the MLB draft and never sniff the majors.

      Mike W.

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    3. You ppl are making Joe D look smart. How can anyone look at recruiting rankings and not think they matter? Keep cherry picking wisconsin and boise, forget the other 200 schools. The best teams get the best recruits. This isn't rocket science.

      Delete
    4. Please explain why UConn, Cincy, and WVU - three teams that have lower recruiting ranking than Pitt - were able to do as well or better than Pitt.

      We are not in the class of UCS, OSU, Alabama, et al, so lets not compare our recruiting with theirs.

      What Pitt needs to do is recruit better than the teams in their conference and then win the conference championship. After that, then we may have national title hopes.

      Teams like Boise and Wisconsin come up because those are school within reach on Pitt in a very short order of time.

      This year we need to do well (win?) the BE, both on the field AND in recruiting.

      Next year the focus changes to teams in the ACC. Recruiting will get both harder and easier. We'll have a lot more to sell recruits, but we'll also need to get better players to be able to compete.

      Delete
    5. Anonymous,

      We're hardly making Joe D. look smart, unless you want to be as delusional. A lot of fans want a return to the glory days, and sorry, Pitt's program isn't structured to reach those heights again.

      Pitt isn't at the same level as OSU, Bama, Florida and the like, and doesn't seem to aspire to be. That's fine, but to attract the consistent 4-5 stars, you have to be at that level. So basically, you can either live with an 8-10 win level program that with a new conference will have better exposure and play in higher profile bowl games, or be delusional and worry about whether a kid runs track or whether a coach is sleeping on a recruits coach in his parent's living room.

      Mike W.

      Delete
    6. mike not to be a dork but wanny averaged 8-10 wins his last 3 seasons and was fired.

      Delete
    7. I know, the administration seems to have this same problem. They want a return to the glory years but don't want to make the full commitment that's required for that to happen.

      The top programs have edges over Pitt that really can't be overcome; Pitt is in a pro sport dominated city, the top programs really aren't and have rabid fan bases and big time contributing alumni, which goes unspoken quite a bit here and in general regarding Pitt football because that is vitally important in building a national championship contender type of program.

      Wanny is still here if the arrest problems don't happen followed by the negative publicity. That's what got him fired, not winning 8-10 games a season, although he never really accomplished that much either.

      Mike W.

      Delete
    8. Yep...Pitt is never going to win a national title. Sad reality but prob true. College football is big time now and I just don't see Pitt ever having the commitment it takes. Almost like the pirates odd of world series.

      Delete
  22. I think Dorin Dickerson is a classic case of a 5 star who was miscast in the DW system...he might have done much better in a different program with a different scheme.

    In short, a 5 star is a real catch is you know how or are willing to use them in a way that plays to their strengths. The Stache was not known for doing that well....and don't get me started on Matt Cavanaugh.

    PC has said he intends to adapt to what his players bring, which I think will serve Pitt well.

    ReplyDelete
  23. There was an undersized end in the Walt Harris era that had a ton of sacks. Can't remember his name, Connor probably fits that mold. Who knows maybe they are just recruiting him on athleticism and they'll make him a linebacker. Anyway 6-2, 240 - 250 will be big enough for DE in college.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Some of these posters really should look at Wisconsin's record the last 5 years. They're not beating top teams. They are a solid team but lose every game against teams with, hold it, better talent!! Sadly you can't coach up 85 players. Which is why getting the best recruits is the only way to be an upper echelon team.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think I can speak for the other when I say this..

      I understand that you can't coach up 85 players. I really WANT Pitt to get more 4-5* players - that is the goal for every program.

      But I also understand that it is a process. Outside of someone like Urban Meyer, no coach is going to come to Pitt and be able to recruit with the big boys from day one. There have been too many troubles with the Pitt program - on and off the field - for that to happen.

      I expect a class in the 30-45 range for this year (depending on Foster, Johnson and Boyd), but would expect something better - four 4* - starting the following year. This is based on the idea (hope?) that (1) PC shows himself to be a good game-day coach, (2) the move to the ACC and increased recruiting $$, and (3) improved recruiting efforts from lessons learned in year one.

      Delete
    2. So anonymous you would prefer not to be like Wisconsin?
      Totally right RKR. I may be delusional and optimistic about the recruits but I'm not wrong when I say we are not going to recruit like Bama, Ohio State, Notre Dame, USC, Florida, Michigan, and others. They got more money, the alumni base, more/better area talent, more fans,haven't had brand new coaches in consecutive years, or have coaches who have lead their own programs before. So I think you are delusional to think that we can be Bama or even OSU who has the 2nd biggest alumni base in America.
      Can we be good yes and so far PC hasn't missed a big time recruit in the area yet. Plus tell me which recruit hasn't worked out yet? Tell me what recruit you wanted that PC missed? I have feeling after you start making a list you will find yourself drawing blanks or realize you have false sense of reality.

      Delete
    3. I hope you're right and Stevie pete finds that kind of patients but Solich, Harris, and Wanny shows he doesn't have much.

      Delete
    4. chi, what is the goal at pitt then? why play if the goal is to be average?

      Delete
    5. I think the goal is to get better over time. Win the BE, compete in the ACC, then win the ACC, then start thinking about National Titles. But we cannot go from being the Pitt team that got handled by SMU to NC contenders overnight.

      Harris checked out long before his contract was allowed to expire. DW had blown chances to win the BE 3 years in a row - come to think of it, that's an amazing stat! Throw in some really BAD losses to weaker teams (I was at the BG game) and looking terrible against ND and Miami (at those too!) and it was clear DW needed to go. Giving DW 6 years seems like a sufficient sampling of what he was going to do for Pitt.

      Chi, not to be a jerk to someone who generally agrees with me, but I think the Kugler kid from NA would have been a nice OL to get.

      Delete
    6. Your right about Steve I'm not really a big fan and I hope he does have the patience. Whats the goal? Well its different for everyone. I just want them to win and represent the city and university well. I know that's generic. I want to root for PC to to win and if he can't I'll berate him just as quickly and just as harshly as everyone else. But he gets a few years, just because I like him. I know a some can't wait but at least complain about his recruiting next year if he misses out on Foster, Johnson, Broxen, and the other elites.

      Delete
    7. I'm all for PC, but his class is looking much like wanny/harris and that got them fired. Wanny did blow it but they did win lots of games his last few years, just not against good teams. why not keep him then. Pitt needs to get all in or quit firing coaches. I guess the issue is more steve pete than PC lol

      Delete
    8. I looked up Wisconsin's record over the last five years. In 2008, their worst year over that span, they were 5-3 in the B1G and 7-6 overall. In every other year they had 5+ wins in the B1G and 9+ wins overall.

      Many of us Pitt fans are hoping PC brings a little of that to our program...

      Delete
    9. The strange thing about Walt and DW was their ability to put players in the NFL. I think both of them had an eye for players that could project to the NFL. The trouble was neither one could actually take that talent and win with it at Pitt.

      Believe me when I say I defended DW for YEARS! Give him a chance, I said. Look at the recruiting, I argued. Next year is the year we break though, I kept saying. DW finally turned me on that Thursday night when they lost to UCONN, when all they had to do was win one game to be BE champs. That was it for me, and I think that was the last straw for SP too. Too many missed opportunities. Time to go...

      Delete
    10. That is amazing isn't it? How can they have so many nfl players but lose to ohio and get blow out some games. seems like a team can be 8-4/7-5 on either all talent or all coaching. need both good to be special or both to suck to be bad.

      Delete
    11. I'm looking back to DW with a pleasant nostalgia. I never thought we should have canned him, I did get frustrated with certain play calling and over commitment to a few WPIAL recruits. If PC can be a better XO's guy, keep with the development of the players, and trim some of the fat I think he will do well. So far I like all his recruits and he's not giving ships to some of the borderline WPIAL guys.

      Delete
  25. Recruiting stars are not the end all be all but it doesn't matter. We all would rather have 4 and 5 star recruits than not. Ivy League QBs (1 and 2 star) look good cause they are playing other 1 and 2 star guys. I remeber sitting in the stands under Walt (who I don't feel gets enough credit) and complain about the low ranking (aka low stars) OL and DL he got. Think how many more games those teams win if the OL and DL was better. You can only coach up so much sooner or later a guy has to have the talent. Now I'm not ready to write PC and staff off yet but recruiting needs to get better or this could be another blown opp for Pitt.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Under all the anonymous posts, the theory is that the highest star recruiting classes means the team will be successful. Well, look at Notre Dame. Consistently in top 10 recruiting classes and consistently not in the top 10 in final rankings.

    Sadly, I am starting to almost agree with fraud graham when he says other things made him uncomfortable. He was probably talking about the bloggers that do nothing but whine. This is becoming more of a whinefest than anything. Doke, you should give out slices of cheese on each whiney post. The anonymous posters and Jody consistently get three slices of cheese for all their whining and complaining. Pitt will win under Chryst leadership. We need to keep him for awhile like WVU just did with their coach after a good, but not great year. C'mon Smiley, forward thinking needed. My bad...any thinking from smiley will work. One piece of cheese @ me for that.

    ReplyDelete
  27. It's not being negative or whining. It's being realistic. Smiley has fired the last two coaches that won 8 games. If PC doesn't win 10 he will get fired and it's hard to win 10 consistently without the top players. Especially when some of the better players are in western pa.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thats the biggest misconception I think people have about the WPIAL and western PA.
      Is there talent? Yes! Can you build your entire program around it anymore? No! The talent base has gone down over the years because of the population shifts and for other reasons. Pryor's are few and far between anymore. The best we can provide is 2-3 5 star kids yearly if that. This year's batch Kugler who is not originally from here and never wanted to go to Pitt ever, Foster Uncommitted with Pitt as the favorite, and Johnson uncommitted with Pitt as the favorite. So even if PC nails down all the best talent in western PA he can't win more then 8 games. whats the alternative? To recruit in western PA for the best hopefully get most of the elites and recruit mid level guys and coach them up. Or you can complain when PC hasn't produced a dud or stud yet.

      Delete
  28. Not sure which Anonymous you are so I will just reply to your last post. Wisconsin seems to win 10 games pretty consistently and so does Boise State with 2 and 3 star talent many years. The idea is to win the games you should and give a go of it to teams that have better talent. I think every Pitt fan would go for 10 win seasons every 3-4 years. You play your schedule. Oh, and who says Wisconsin had better talent? Look at scout recruiting results since 2008 and you won't see Wisconsin beating Michigan, OSU, PSU, Nebraska or Michigan State in the final rankings, but they beat them on the field, not every time but they have won. Do your homework before spouting off, jackwagon.

    Urban will find a reason to dismiss you from his team if he believes you are not a contributor by your second year. You will be out on your can. Why does he do this? Because he can. The NCAA allows universities to cut players for various reasons so they can go back and recruit 25 players each year. A loophole that needs to change. Pitt doesn't employ that tactic of exploitation.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. dude not sure what you read but that anonymous post said wisconsin didn't have better talent. What are you reading?

      they haven't beat michigan, osu, psu until the last two years, while each team was way down and lost to michigan state last year.

      Delete
  29. Last 5 years of wisconsin. good record the last 3 years but not many bowl wins and happen to have the big 3 schools all down. I'd take it but it's pretty much what wanny did. Should be interesting what happens when michigan and osu get better.

    2011-11-3 Lost to ohio state and beat penn state. did not play michigan. lost to oregon in bowl game
    2010-11-2 beat ohio state and beat michigan. did not play psu. lost to tcu in bowl game
    2009-10-3 lost to ohio state and beat michigan. did not play psu. beat miami in bowl game
    2008-7-6 lost to ohio state, michigan, and psu. lost to florida state in bowl game
    2007-9-4 lost to ohio sate and psu. beat michigan. lost to tennessee in bowl game

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Very true. But if Pitt can mimic that (as Chris pointed out there is no guarantee or reason to think Pitt can)it will serve us well in the ACC. Wisc for me still is a good role model and if we can get some of those WPIAL stars we should be better off then Wisc.

      Delete
    2. agreed. all pitt's class need are to be solid and get the majority of local 4/5 stars and they should be better

      Delete
    3. I'd be happy with 10 win seasons, myself.

      Delete
    4. 10 win regular season... I would be estatic...

      This year... the over/under is 7 regular season wins. Read some story on the over/under for all major colleges... so that is not my number.

      I think the defense HAS to win games for Pitt... whether putting up points or getting great field position for the offense... coupled with shutting down the other team.
      I'm not even sure of Pitts running game due to the Olineman this year. Lots of depth at RB but if the Oline can't create holes, it's all for nothing.

      Delete
    5. @ Anonymous posted at 10:46pm....
      are your criticizing Wisconsin's success the last 2 years because they lost their bowl game? Did you forget those were ROSE BOWL games they lost?
      When was our last BCS trip?
      "Pretty much what Wanny did"- remind me again what BCS game he coached us to?

      Delete
    6. not criticizing them at all, just showing what they've done. seems like some ppl thought they were USC. should be interesting to see if they can say on top when ohio state and michigan get back to their normal selves.

      wisconsin has been to 1 more bcs game than pitt the last ten years.

      other than the last couple years when the big 3 were in disaray, they have won against chumps and lost big games, including blowouts to osu/psu. very similar to wanny.

      Delete
    7. In 2011 they finished 11-3, losing to #5 Oregon in the RB 45-38. They beat 3 ranked teams, lost to 2 ranked teams and an unranked team. They finished the season #10.

      In 2010 they finished 11-2, losing to #3 TCU in the RB 21-19. They beat 2 ranked teams (including #1 OSU) and lost to 2 ranked teams. They finished the season #7.

      In 2009 they finished 10-3, beating #15 Miami in the Champ Sports Bowl 20-14. They beat 1 ranked team and lost to two ranked teams. They finished the season #16.

      It's been 3 decades since Pitt has had one season as good as any of the last 3 seasons at Wisconsin.

      Delete
    8. not to disagree but until michigan, ohio state, and penn state all dropped wiscy was very much like pitt. plus if you've seen a game at camp randall you know they have a huge home field advantage.

      Delete
  30. Chris have you been able to watch any of the scrimmages?

    ReplyDelete
  31. You know there is something to be said about looking at the glass half-empty. If something good happens, you're always pleasantly surprised. That being said, either our defense sucks or our O-Line is pretty solid, otherwise there is no way Bennett would be ripping off all these 50+ yd runs.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. My guess....
      Bennett has track speed and the LB's and DB's don't...
      It's not the Oline... because these runs are not up the middle...
      I suspect from what I read... he is going off tackle and the TE is sealing off the LB... then its off to the races.
      But Pitt "D" is pretty good.

      Delete
  32. People have to stop using Wisconsin as an example- at least for now. Just because Chryst coached there, that doesn't mean the same thing is going to happen at Pitt. Could he have similar success? Yes. But one does not necessarily follow the other. Foge Fazio was a coordinator at Pitt so he was obviously highly responsible for their success. He became the head coach at the same place, immediately following his success at a coordinator. If the theory that Chryst will succeed at Pitt just like he did at Wisconsin were true, then Fazio surely would have been a successful head coach. It was at the same time, at the same school. He had even more going for him in this theory. But he failed as a head coach. Chryst may or may not fail but what happened at Wisconsin won't have anything to do with it. Every situation is different and he will succeed or fail on what he does at Pitt, not what he did at Wisconsin.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Wisconsin is putting together a pretty good 2013 recruiting class...

      Maybe that is because 4 of the coaches (who can't recruit) left to go to Pitt. I include Bostad who then went to TB.

      Delete
    2. I'm not really saying Pitt will obviously follow Wisc precedent. I'm saying Pitt should use Wisc as a model in regards to recruiting except for some high level WPIAL recruits. I would say that even if PC and some of his staff didn't coach there. But your 100% correct.

      Joe D. You cannot prove to anyone that PC and his staff is rubbish at recruiting. If you can I would like to here it. But so far you have no proof, none.

      Delete
  33. DaveW was a great D coordinator. Did not translate to head coaching on any level.

    ReplyDelete
  34. chi-town...
    I'm not going to reiterate all the FACTS...
    going back to the day he was hired...
    2012 recruiting class..
    2013 recruiting class..
    2014 recruiting class..
    and when you compare to what the top recruiters do... one can conclude Chryst and crew are clueless when it comes to recruiting.
    In statistical terms... it is "significant"
    You sound like some of those posters on the BWI board drinking the Paterno koolaid... proof, due process, etc.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There is a difference between due process and preemptive strike. The only conclusion that can be made about PC's recruiting is that not one player of his has failed yet. That's all anyone knows. Which top recruiters are you comparing him to? Which schools? PC has had ok classes. those are the facts. Which recruit in particular do you have an absolute problem with/or which big time WPIAL recruit got away that has so irked you?

      Also track and field times can be a good indicator of success down the road but even speed and strength can be gained in college. I improved my 100 meter time almost by a full second when i jumped to college and that just a small D III school.

      Delete
  35. Chris I really enjoyed when you deleted all of joe d rants can you please consider doing it on a permanent basis. I don't mind people being critical off Pitt sports but his rumblings are absurd, repetitive and embellished. I understand you don't have to read the comments but I enjoy reading YOUR responses to real questions and his remarks kkilling the commenting section. Just by mentioning him in an original post feeds to his fire. Please do us all a favor until he gets the hint and stops posting.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. LOL...
      Just the facts...
      Sorry you choose to ignore the facts and drink the koolaid.

      Delete
    2. Keep posting joe d!!

      Don't like it don't read it. No one is forcing you. He doesn't attack anyone or say cruel things. Not very hard to scroll by his post.

      Delete
    3. He may say some goofy post but does do some research and is right about recruiting mattering.

      What are we in 4th grade tattle tailing?

      Delete
    4. Chris is the expert here and it's his blog not joe d blog

      Delete
    5. Here's a question if Joe D loves FACTS and does his research and is right about recruiting how can he say

      "Wisconsin is putting together a pretty good 2013 recruiting class...

      Maybe that is because 4 of the coaches (who can't recruit) left to go to Pitt. I include Bostad who then went to TB."

      Let's look at the facts.

      # recruits 4* 3* ranking (Scouts)

      UW 16 2 10 35
      Pitt 14 2 8 43

      So the difference between UW and Pitt is 7 spots. The difference between 35 and 43 is two players with ONE extra *

      247 has UW at 34 and Pitt at 42 and the 247composite ranking is UW 36 and Pitt at 37.

      How is one a pretty good class and the other is the staff can't recruit when they are so close?

      Delete
    6. Wisconsin does not have a boyd, foster, johnson, krugler in madison. This gives pitt a big advantage over them and is why the class should be higher

      Delete
    7. And right now 3 of the 4 are uncommitted and 2 have Pitt as one of thier favorites. And Boyd still has some interst since he was at the scrimmage Sat.

      If they get two which I think they will get Foster and Johnson they will be a top 25 class. If they don't then I will argee at PC cant recruit. Wait until all the facts are in which wont be until NLI day

      Delete
    8. You could argue wisky is coming off a rose bowl season, plays in a better conference, plays in a packed stadium and constantly in the top 15 so they should have a much higher recruiting class than Pitt. It's all in how you look at it.

      Delete
    9. It is waaay easier to get kids in your backyard than to have to convince them to come to madison. Its a cool town but a long ways from florida/texas plus its freezing cold with tons of snow. Pitt has studs, not as many as in the past, close to campus.

      you do not need a packed stadium or be in the big 10 to recruit well. no offense but you're looking at the wrong things, kids don't care about long term. By your other post why do you comment about recruiting if you don't care?

      Delete
  36. Really by saying wisky class is highly ranked because they lost some coaches to PItt is factual.
    I don't drink the kool aid i am open minded and think will struggle this year and don't know if PC is the long term answer. Your comments are not factual by any means. You can twist anything to make it sound factual but it's really your negative opinion. I don't get the hate. Pitt is not a top level bcs program what do you want. That's not drinking the kool aid. It's not 1978 anymore.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Read my post...
      I said, "maybe" its because 4 coaches left Wisky.
      Could be several reasons... but look at Wisky recruiting the last 4 years..
      then look at 2013 class... part of that explanation is "NEW" coaches...

      As far as other facts... I listed the number of offers made to 2014 players... Pitt made 15... other schools were 30-50 offers.. Wisky made 25..
      Some are no brainers to offer... "JUST OFFER"... it's not that hard!!

      Pitt may not be a top bcs program.... but there is NO EXCUSE to how Chryst and crew are recruiting...
      if that continues... expect Chryst to be gone within 4 years.

      Delete
    2. Ok, no one can rip on joe d for that post. No personal attacks, gave his opinion with logical statements.

      Delete
    3. Joe D. It could very well turn out that way. But a useless offers are pointless. If I have a criticism of PC so far in recruiting its that he's giving out offers to Georgia and California kids that mean nothing. Better off not to waste your time. Another criticism that Chris points out why didn't he hire anyone with roots in Virginia, NY and Maryland. These are natural PSU recruiting areas and Edsall at maryland is a dick, so we should jump all over this area while they are down. VA is loaded next year we should pounce. Those are criticisms not blind second guessing about recruits who have played a down yet or fizzled out completely. PC might fail but why hope for that. If PC succeeds recruiting will get easier and mine (our) lives will be happier. You seem to have a alot of knowledge but concede a point every once in awhile. Let PC and his staff have a go for a little.

      Delete
    4. See I can be critical, I'm not just a head in the sand supporter, blind faithful, or kool-aid drinker.

      Delete
  37. I only use Wisconsin as an example of a team that rarely signed a 4 star, mainly 2 and 3 stars and won lots of games. If Pitt signs lots of three stars and two stars, let's see what happens. That is the fun in all of this. I predict Pit does well if they leave Coach Chryst alone and let him be the coach (back away slowly pederson).

    It is only coincidence that PC comes from Wisconsin and they had poor recruiting if you go only on star ratings. You can't compare. To second that thinking however, I did use Boise as another program with a rare 4 star and mainly 2 and 3 stars that have won alot of games. Yes they did beat Oklahoma in a BCS game with all that no star talent.

    My point to everyone is let's wait and see what happens instead of whining about how things look right now. He may have it right. Time will tell. Until year 4-5, I won't criticize recruiting because we just don't know enough to make a valid argument one way or the other. Three pieces of cheese to go with the Jody whining.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's a post about recruiting in the off season. What do you want the comments to be about?

      If it was Foster the post will be all positive but this kid was questionable so some will be negative. No offense to Doke but PC is not reading the comment section on this blog. His feelings will be fine.

      Delete
    2. You use the only 2 teams that it works for. What about the other 100 teams that it doesn't??? I hope you're not a gambler.

      Delete
    3. Huff,
      Wisky is having a pretty good 2013 recruiting year...
      and they lost 4 coaches!!
      Is it a coincidence of Wisky recruiting 2-3 stars the last 4 years...
      Is it a coincidence that Pitt has what... 6 2-star players on it's committ list!! Note, the 4 coaches came to Pitt!!

      If you want to win games... you need BOTH good coaching and good players.

      Delete
    4. Joe D

      I think you give PC and the others that came to Pitt too much credit, They were assistant coachs I dont think they could override the Head coach on what players to recruit or sign.

      Also if you look at a earlier post I showed the UW is ranked 35 and Pitt is ranked 43. Very close and the difference is only 2 kids with one extra *.

      Delete
    5. Doesn't hurt wisky is coming off a rose bowl season in a recruits eyes.

      Delete
    6. It really hurt USC not playing in any bowl games....they can't recruit at all...lol

      Delete
    7. "It really hurt USC not playing in any bowl games....they can't recruit at all...lol"


      Finally someone who gets that kids don't care about how full the stands are/coaching stability/bowl games.

      A good recruiter can recruit anywhere anytime.

      Delete
    8. Let's get away from UW comparisions. When I was loking up the rankings I noticed UVA at the top of the page Pitt was on. UVA is ranked 26 again Pitt 43 but the average * was UVA 2.94 and Pitt 2.86 only 0.08 difference and Pitt has one more 4* then UVA. Here is a future conference opponent and close to a top 25 class to compare to.

      Delete
  38. There is a scrimmage this weekend (from what I understand)... between..
    Central Valley (Foster) and Belle Vernon (Johnson)

    How many pitt coaches should attend?
    Answer: The entire Offensive coaching staff plus Chryst!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Joe how can you say that...you're picking on Pitt..lol

      Delete
    2. What will you do if he lands both?
      If he doesn't I will admit that he didn't well in 2012 and you were right.

      Delete
  39. Pitt lands another 2-star player...
    Galambos out of Haverford...
    they beat out Yale and Harvard... whoopie...

    if they continue on this trek, I find it hard to believe Johnson, Foster and Boyd will want to join a team/class full of 2-stars.

    ReplyDelete