Random thoughts on the Pitt football and basketball programs
TheSorry State of Pitt Football.....nothing else to say.
If Pitt were a pro team, this is when the owner and/or general manager faces the microphones and issues a dreaded "vote of confidence" in Paul Hackett (oops, Chryst).And his coach-killing QB to boot. How on earth this guy devoid of skills has scammed his way into a 3-year starting gig on a BSC-AQ team is one of the Seven Wonders of The World.
These bad times will just make the good times that much sweeter... It's just going to take a few years.I'm going to remain patient... Even if it kills me... Pitt2Cali
Pitt will not succeed with Paul Chryst as the headcoach, he is possibly worse than Hackett, this program needs an enema.
I hope you're wrong
Paul Chryst is a fly-attracting piece of fecal matter as a head coach. A horrible, horrible hire by the worst AD in major American collegiate sports.
It's really not that bad... Take a deep breath and your pills
Pitt finishes its series with UConn at 4-5. 1-4 at Rentwhatever stadium - all incredibly inextricable losses. So for the past 9 years, the first 9 years of UConn's FBS status, Pitt football has been slightly-worse than a start-up program with zero local recruiting base and no history of large-scale success. Pitt's futility with programs like UConn and Cincinnati, and the fact that Chad Morris makes more than our head coach suggests Pitt isn't trying, or is out-of-its league. Or there is an enormous disconnect between what the university deems successful and that of the fans.
Pitt only cares about basketball it looks like....
31 years and counting. This is the longest stretch of 3 or more losses in a season in Pitt football history.
wow Pittikrit...that clearly beat anything I've ever said...Pitt is NOT going 6-6 as I forecasted.... and everyone beat up on me...They are who I thought they were..Clearly, this is a coaching issue.... someone who cannot motivate... someone who cannot lead!!!As Yogi Berra said... "Football is 90% mental. The other half is physical."ok.. he was referring to Baseball... but the mental aspect is part of ANY sport...
All I can say is.....thank God BB season has started.....and Tino only has 2 more games at Pitt.
As well as ya know Chryst had us prepared for ya know ND, he clearly, ya know could not get this team motivated for ya know UCONN.He's clearly ya know in way over his ya know head.We need to pull a ya know a Lakers w/ Mike Brown ya know like.....NOW!!! We now will have some $ in the coffers with the ACC deal I mean, eat Chryst's contract, fire Pederson and blow this thing up.That was an uninspired, pathetic performance and this falls on ya know Chryst period.Just sad...
I'm willing to cut Chryst some slack this year and pass judgement at the end of next season. As Fraud Graham said "this is what we have to work with." And I'll never, ever question Chryst for being aggressive or going for it on 4th down--that's what college football is all about. Let's see what he can do with a couple of recruiting years, with Savage at QB, Shell as a Sophomore feature back, etc. He didn't create the dysfunctionality that he walked into.
1-4 in the Big East translates to what in the ACC?
Doormats in the ACC
I gave up at half time. Had seen enough at that point. I got the sense after UConn and their bottom feeder offense went down the field with ease on the opening drive and Pitt's response was a three and out that this was going to be another embarrassing loss for the Panthers. My hope was that Pitt was so pi$$ed off after blowing the ND game that they came out with fire in their eyes and took out their frustration on UConn. There is a saying to the effect that "Winning breeds winning." I think that mentally this current group has just been beaten down by the coaching changes and aren't physically good enough to overcome a bad night against a poor team. I'm still not going to pass judgement on Chryst until he's given fair time to recruit and stabilize the program despite some warning signs this may not work out. I don't think they win either of their last two games.
This isn't a coaching thing...this is a Pitt thing! They've been playing up or down to the level of competition for years and can't get out of their own way. Too say he can't motivate is ludicrous...he didn't have them motivated last week?I'm still gonna look at it as glass half full, you gotta take a step back to take a step forward! (I hope)
It's my fault....I jinxed us by looking at NYC area hotels right before the game in anticipation of a Pinstripe Bowl bid. My bad and I should know better, given the up and down personality of this team.So I suppose that we will now beat Rutgers and choke in Tampa? Isn't that the formula?
After what I heard and read coming out of fall camp, I called for a 5-7 record -- and cancelled my season tix -- but that was moreso out of disgust than true belief. Basically, as soon as I heard Paul Hackett-oops-Chryst utter those infamous words that Pitt fans have come to know too well: that Tino the Magnificent gave us the best chance to win [I'd add, even if that's no chance at all....].And was booed out of the room.Looks like I was an optimist: with out dud of a head coach and our NAIA-talent QB, this team still has a real shot to hit the clubhouse with a 4-8 record! Who knew....
Forget about Foster and Johnson..No amount of begging, graveling, alcohol or pecan pie can get them to come to this trainwreck of a football team.
Joe, you are not a realist. You definitely lean negative but see-saw with the team's performance like the rest of us.
In this case JoeL...If Pitt beat UConn... they had a 50-50 shot at Foster and Johnson...right now... who would advise either one of them to go to Pitt... being a starter on a losing team not going to a bowl game is not enticing enough.Remember, Johnson pulled out of PSU because of the ban from bowl games and potential of losing seasons.
JD, while some may agree, your whole point contradicts other points you have made to this blog about how the current state of the team doesn't matter in recruiting. Vanderbilt sucks and they have a great recruiting class. How many times have we heard about that on this blog? There are other teams that suck that are recruiting well. You bring it up all the time. We've all known Pitt's struggles for some time and you said there are no excuses when it comes to recruiting. Now you are changing your mind? Which is it?
anonymous...correct... no excuses when it comes to recruiting...but do you really think Chryst can land either Foster or Johnson after UConn??I don't..He couldn't get them to committ after the V.Tech game..So... my point... the chances of landing either Foster or Johnson are slim to none.I'd love to see them go to Pitt... I just don't see it.Why... Pitt is losing and not going to a bowl game..Chryst 2013 class is a bunch of 2star recruits... the 2011 and 2012 classes we not great... therefore, what does the forecast of Pitt look... not good.
Cannot say anything good about this loss. Should not have happened. Very disappointed. Only have to suffer through two more games this year. Thank goodness for DVR. Was able to make it go by much quicker. No excuses for this. Coaches and players both to blame for this season. This team reminds me of last year's basketball team. No chemistry.
At least next year we get to lose to some new teams. I'm tired of losing to cinncy, uconn and Rutgers. Looking forward to losing to Virginia, duke and g tech. KRF
Chris, can you comment on the rumors of Chryst chewing tobacco on the sidelines?If that is even close to being true, he should be fired.
I'm not sure how tat would have been possible last night. His mouth was agape most of the game....
As much as the team and Chryst all deserve to be ripped, this team is never going to beat anyone consistently without a true play maker at QB. We've got quite a few in the que so AT LEAST this season will mark the end of that chain of events.
Sure looks like Pitt will not be able to string a couple of supremely talented recruits together. An entire team of players lacking even a shred of character is easy to see. This organization should not bother to look in the mirror; there is nothing looking back.A disappointing loss that all of us should have seen coming.
Any chance for a pederson piece? What he's done as AD and his role in this mess. It starts at the top right.KRF
JoeD, your guy Stoops is looking better and better....
Not to pile on Pederson/chrsyt but did anyone read the article on texas a&m on yahoo. Talks about hiring Kevin Sumlin, who was houston's coach.quote from their AD......Byrne said. "When I was looking at hiring Kevin, one of things I really evaluate coaches on is how they recruit.
There is more than one problem plagueing this Pitt team. But the evidence is mounting that the single biggest problem may be that the team is "self-motivating."For the life of me, I can't remember ever seeing a team play so down and up to the level of its competition.Right now, it seems Chryst is not a coach capable of systematically motivating his players to go out and perform regardless of how good or bad the team is that they're playing. At least not ye.Today it's being reported that walls were not enought to preven Pitt coaches from being heard yelling at players during a team meeting on the South Side. It was to the point that at least one coach seemed ready to blow a gasket.From my experience in lockerrooms, yelling does not work nearly as well as intimidation. Somtimes you got to have them playing scared.The problem is that the ability to inimidate is something some people just seem to be born with. Don't know if it can be taught or learned.Have yet to see any signs this team is playing anywhere close to scared.The Good News...A WIN looks to be guaranteed next week against 8 abd 1 Rutgers. It is simply a matter of knowing the team will again be self-motivating without the need of any help from its Head Coach.PittofDreams
Bring in the Quip HC and assistants... they know how to intimidate...I've witnessed a few practices... know a few coaches..As Coach Z. was quoted in regards to the use of the f-bomb... "I enunciated properly and use it correctly in a sentence"... he was a Language Arts teacher!!! But my dad has the best stories about watching practices.Its not just the f-bomb.. its mf-bomb... its you sorry sack of S---... its your mother is a better football player than you are and she never played... etc..Chryst doesn't know how to motivate or LEAD...When asked if he has any goals.. his response was.. he has none... What....only to get better every week... what?
i dont know why everyone is so surprised at the results of the season. i read lots of finger pointing to pc and the staff and everyones favorite target tino. truth of the matter is winning ways are learned and do not just happen. as much as it pains me there has not been a consistent winning tradition since the 70's and early 80's. this program does not know how to win and that is the problem. how do you correct this? it starts with recruiting, and we have lost the last two years. senior leadership on this team is weak. reason being past examples have not been very outstanding. the administation has not helped matters with their inconsistent desire to be a top flight program. i do not see a change being made with pc but i do believe some pressure should be applied to review his coaching staff. even obama is reviewing his staff before he starts his new term. perhaps some money to entice some good coaching prospects that can recruit. now is not the time to abandon our Panthers as they need our support now more than ever...HAIL TO PITT!!!
Look there is no efffin way they can fire PC after anything less than 3 years given the recent coaching turmoil. So Chris what asst coaches will be whacked? Who has under performed, I know u never liked the DL coach. KRF
...and a few of the other choices aren't looking so great right now... Mike Leach is already being accused of player abuse (wouldn't that have made for great blog chatter here)...Christobal's team is 2-8 and we all know about Holgerson's first year.And Stoops, Stoops, Stoops doesn't have a record since he's still an assistant. There's no guarantee that he'd be doing any better than PC.If it was easy, they could've asked my grandmother to pick a HC. It easy and we just have to let this one play out.
Stoops would have had a better 2013 recruiting class...With his ties to Ohio and Florida... he would have brought his older brother in as an assistant... the older brother is LB coach and recruiting coordinator for Youngstown State..But you are correct... his record would be unknown.And I like the article on Leach!! Pitt needs a little whoopass..
This was a terrible loss, but unfortunately, not unexpected. This program simply doesn't know how to win on a consistent basis. A winning team does so due to consistently good or great efforts and habits, not great one week, lousy the next. There is a lack of a winning mindset at Pitt, that hopefully Chryst, along with better players can overcome.Also, I'm tired of hearing how it's the coach's responsibility to get the players motivated to play. I played sports for many years, and in my experience motivation comes from within. I never needed a coach to get me motivated to play. To me, a coach's job is to get a team ready with game plans, teaching, etc. It's the player's job to come motivated.Speaking of Chryst, while he seems able to teach (i.e. Tino), his game-day coaching at the moment leaves a lot to be desired. Hopefully, he'll get better, but only time will tell.Also, let's not write off recruits until they commit elsewhere. We really don't know what's going through their minds. Let's wait until signing day before writing them off.Finally, I think most football teams reflect their QB. An average team most likely will have an average QB. There are exceptions, but I think that's mostly true. Without a top-notch, prime-time QB, Pitt will be an average or mediocre program. That was one of Wanny's biggest failings, and Chryst needs to upgrade the QB position significantly.
Are you kidding about motivation?It's not just football. Many walks of life involve leadership taking the initiative to inspire the troops on the front line to reach beyond themselves in an effort to succeed.For example, a Sales Manager calling a sales rep into the office in an attempt to light a fire that might motivate the rep to refocus their attention toward meeting quota.True, some individuals don't need outside motivation. But that is a limited few.Maybe you were one of them?PittofDreams
Yes, I agree that people can be motivated short-term by outside influences. However, winners can't rely solely on the motivation from others. Sales managers, generals and coaches are not always around to inspire. True motivation should come from within.
Dan,Did you go to Heinz or the championship every year in HS?Many kids in HS... just look at sports as a social event.. trust me I know!! Lazy, Lazy, Lazy.. and the coaches are just there to cash in on an extra paycheck.But college... these coaches are paid very well and no comparison to HS.. and results are required. Heck, many wpial BOE's are more active in evaluating the football coach than Pederson.
The fact of whether I went to Heinz Field is irrelevant. My point is that I was motivated to play every game I was involved in, which came mainly from my competitive fire to win. Yes, inspiration can come from others, but if you lack the intangible quality to motivate yourself, you won't be a winning athlete.If those kids in HS are lazy, then they ultimately won't succeed in athletics. There are athletes with great physical skills that don't make it, and others with less physical ability who do. The difference? The desire to succeed and the self-discipline to make it happen.There are coaches who succeed with laid-back, low-key personalities. Not every coach is a fire and brimstone person, but they succeed nonetheless. Why? Because they have great players.A great quote that I completely agree with is: "Great players make great coaches, not the other way around". Coaches are certainly part of the a team's success, but great players are what ultimately determine a program's success.What makes a great player? The ability and inner drive to become great.
Man, it looked like Saban and Strong didn't have their teams motivated yesterday...they layed an egg.
all aspects of the football program need to be reviewed. the program has been flat for the past decade(take out the lone 10 win season). the way i look at it administrators manage,coaches coach and recruit,players play and fans should support. if you want to look at this as a business like a previous commentor suggested every aspect of your business should be under scrutiny in this offseason. with that said my concern is the program will go with status quo.sp while he has done some good things for the atheletic department should be placed on notice,pc while he is learning on the job and has shown he knows the game(look how many years it took wanny to put a winning season on the board and he had pro experience) should be reviewing his entire staff to upgrade but the adminstration should support through salary and position upgrades(because in business you get what you pay for) the players should find that leader in the locker room. who is going to step up and give the leadership this team is so sorely missing? (every business has a manager and department heads but it is the workers that ultimately implement the vision) and finally for the fans, i know it is not easy supporting this team, as a looonnnggg time season ticket holder who drives from way out of town for each game it would be easy to just bag it...but i wont because i love my panthers as should you..we all want what is best and we all want a winner..it is easy to support a winner but it will be sweeter to support this team hopefully when the program gets turned around and is a more consistent one.
Article on Mike Leach and Washington state..wow.. I like it.. wilson is your typically HS football premadonna.last line...Leach is a hardass, there's no disputing that, but this is also major college football and Washington State hasn't played at that level in awhile.Pitt needs someone to whoopass...http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/marquess-wilson-quits-washington-states-accuses-mike-leach-015639794--ncaaf.html
Haven't read it, and your point about Washington State is accurate.Still, given the allegation that got him canned at Texas Tech, this really isn't something you want to see.
Folks enjoy rambling on about the faults of the head coach but the fact is that there is either very little talent at PITT or it is being hidden obscurely on the bench. Fact is: the players fail to execute even the most basic of skills, leadership wanes from week to week, and the all important QB position is in the hands of a limited athlete.In the games where I've seen PITT do well this season the coaching staff seemed to simplify the offense for Tino and spread the ball around to a lot of different players, getting everyone involved. I still cannot understand why the coaching staff seems to try to use Ray Graham in power back type situations when he's just not suitable for that??????? It's been years since PITT has had a quality QB that the team and the fans just know is gonna lead them to victory down the stretch. When they someday get that quality QB the whole atmosphere is gonna change at PITT.
Talent was not the problem when they were destroying Virginia Tech and leading Notre Dame. And there's no way that UConn and Youngstown State have more talent. Pitt doesn't have the talent to be a great team but they have way too much to be 4-6 against the easy schedule.
The problem is removing Wanny's losers. That guy bred a culture of losers, he clinched up in the clutch as a coach and it wore off on all his players. He clearly looked at games as "lets not lose" instead of "lets win". Since then, every tight game, any important game and the team looks like they are trying to not lose. You can see guys tighten and crumble. We cannot fully evaluate any coach until his stink has left the program. He poisoned this program by building a losing culture and it will take some time to wash that away. Don't worry we are almost done with it and you will see the positive results. For those of you who think this has no impact it does. It takes a while for the attitude of a team to change and a lot of times it takes graduating the guys who losing is stuck on.Pitt is not a bad or poorly coached football team. They could easily be having a tremendous season, but find ways to lose rather than win. They will learn to win with Chryst and everyone will forget his first season or two.
Wannstedt was 27-12 in his last 3 seasons. He hardly had a roster filled with losers.
Hardly had a roster filled with winners Chris. Sure his record of 27-12 is a winning one, but how many games that he should have won did he lose? Too numerous to count. What could/should that record have been? A heck of a lot better than 27-12.Dave did not lead a team to a win in a must-win game ever. Every game with major implications he collapsed. Sure he could beat teams when it meant squat and get a nice record but he tightened up and so did his team in the clutch. Definition of a loser. Would you really call Wanny a "winner" or a guy that inspired confidence or who's team played with confidence? If so you are clinically insane. Would you say you ever looked at his players and said, those guys are winners?There is a losing stink on this program that originated under him. Any must win games are losses. In crunch time guys crumble. Our QB currently perfectly embodies Wannstedtian play. His stats this year are terrific. Look at the numbers and you say, hey this guys pretty good. But then you think when has he ever made a play in the clutch? Not once. When has he led the team back to a big win? Not once. When has he stole a game he shouldn't have won? Not once. When have you looked at him and said that kid is a winner? Not once. This losing stink will be gone when all Wannstedt players are gone. Just look at the ND game and who collapsed. Tino, Shannahan, Harper. All Wannstedt players.This is a roster filled with some Wannstedt losers and Pitt will be better when the program has moved past that.
correction, this program will take off once it moves past that.
That actually makes sense. Good work
everyone is slamming chryst for the results this year. Questionable calls from him but It is a transition year. Someone said the stat on rivals that these players had 42 different assistant coaches the last 3 years. This team has shown flashes as what it can be. I can see us improving drastically next year. Just question marks at center and wide receiver. This will be a telling weekend coming up. Boyd and johnson talk to each other so do not be surprised if he comes down this week too. I know he is suppose to be in wisconsin but will he honestly fly out saturday morning to just return 34 hrs later? Many changes will take into affect i think after the season with players and coaches i think so it will be interesting to see. H2P
Excuses...Look at PSU and their 1st year coach who was an assistant... what they went through and the loss of players..No comparison..
They are 6-4, with a loss to Ohio and a bad Virginia team. A better resume that us, yes, but nowhere near as special as the Nitter media would have us believe.Along the subject of motivation, the "us against the world" bit they have usually works rather well.All I think Bill O'Brien has shown is that JoePa and his kids were holding back the offense for a long time.
Can we talk about basketbll?
ChWhat are ur thoughts on John Johnson'e tweets. How much is Jamie going to take. I like him, but he's not far from hurting the team
What exactly did he say
He really has no reason to complain. He's not as good as Robinson, Woodall, or Zeigler right now.
yes chris...but is he better than cam wright...based on last year's body of work... I'd say so..but Dixon seems to want to get back to that defensive mindset....don't know if that will work in the acc which has an up and down kinda game which fits J.Johnson.
He made some comments last year that were not smart. He wants to play, we got that, he thinks he one of the better guards on the team, but he better show it when he gets minutes or I think he's gone
Could he be better than them @ his time at pitt?
Joe D., Wright was playing the three, and even if they both play the same position, Wright gives them defense that Johnson doesn't.As for Johnson, he could be a contributor in future years. His main problem is that he is a shooting guard in a point guard body. Woodall is the same and it took him a few years to adapt to where his game is helpful to the team.
whati would be interested in seeing is wannys record against the spread. other than the big win at WVU doues anyone ever remember him winning another game as an underdog because i sure dont. thanks
Hard to say. I want to think Cincy in 2007, Iowa in 2008, and USF in 2008. But even in those situations I have a hard time saying those teams were truly better in the first place. I mean, would Iowa (picked to finish 7th in the Big 10 that year) have been considered an upset if Pitt didn't lose earlier to Bowling Green?
Will these players be weeded out of the program after the season:Zenel, Lipper, Tinker, Weatherspoon, Ryles, S. Williams, Frimpong, Carranozzi, Corey Davis?
As far as I'm concerned I'm done with Pitt football as long as Steve Pederson is at the helm. In KC, fans are flying planes over the stadium calling for Pioli to get fired. Where is that passion from fans, alumni, etc. calling for Pederson? This guy has absolutely ruined Pitt in his second term. People will claim that he got the Olympic sports new facilities they desperately needed, but every school is doing that! Heck even state schools like SRU and CalU recently spent millions on new facilities. The guy is a pigeon and needs removed.
Chris - You awfully silent on the Chryst/Tobacco rumors that he was chewing on the sidelines. When things don't break your way, you disappear.
Why in the world would Chryst using tobacco be things not breaking my way? Personally I couldn't care less.
Peterson didn't ruin Pitt football. Ed Bozik did in 1981. Since then, when was Pitt any better than they've been under Peterson? He didn't ruin it. He's just not making it any better.Peterson can't hire good coaches, especially when given the small budget Pitt wants to give him. (He couldn't with the huge budget given to him at Nebraska either). But Peterson's predecessors since Bozik were equally as inept in that area.
On the Sun. Night Sports Showdown Paul Zeist attributed the inconsistent play of the Pitt football team this year mainly to a shortage of talent. According to Paul, there is simply not enough depth on the roster to field a team that can win consistently. He wasn’t blaming the coaches for the teams poor performance because, as he said, they game-planned and schemed well enough to win games, but the players occasionally lost to lesser opponents because that's what bad teams do. Too many of the current players simply can't play consistently good football.MC
Pitt doesn't have great talent but there's no reason to lose to Youngstown State or put up some really poor performances like they did this season. When Graham stunk people would line up to say it but for some reason many fans give Chryst a pass.
chris, now that we know john johnson is transferring, will pit recruit another 2 guard for 2013? who does pitt have a shot at at that position? detrick mostella?
Was just about to ask this. I figure they can't get another PG with Newkirk coming in, but would a combo guard be something they would look at? Would they go back in with Artis (although he may have already committed)? Maybe the best big they can find? They seem to be stocked at the 2/3 slot with Trey, Chris Jones, Durand, and even Lamar and JJM.
aapm74:Pederson damaged whatever branding Pitt football had by tearing down an on campus stadium without ever formulating a way to utilize Pitt Stadium with upgrades. Throughout the history of Pitt football, the two stellar eras in the age of A.P. voting were both ruined by Pitt administrators. Failing to give Jackie Sherrill what he wanted began the unraveling. Which A.D. refused to protest the higher academic standards that drove away Mike Gottfried, whose first team in 1986 was much better than Chryst's? Jeff Long's brilliance is now Arkansas' problem, but isn't he the idiot who hired Dave Wannstedt? Pederson is the worst of the lot. By all accounts, he is a narcissistic tyrant when he isn't kissing Nordy's butt. His department doesn't have money because he does such a piss poor job of communicating with middle class alums. I continued to donate money after Pitt Stadium was destroyed, but I drew the line when he totally mishandled the firing of Dave Wannstedt - who, like Chryst, totally mismanaged winnable games. Pederson perpetuates the inept management of Pitt sports which began when a Pitt chancellor told Jock Sutherland to go to hell. As long as the athletic department goes low ball on coaches' salaries and we have dunderheads like Paul Chryst running the show,the deterioration will continue.Pederson has given us a usually above average hoops program that diintegrates after a few games in the NCAA Tournament.Pitt baseball had potential but it's also downsliding. The ACC has real baseball teams who will feast on Pitt. Women's basketball? Another Pederson joke.
I couldn't have said it myself. Renovating Pitt Stadium and building the Pete at a different location would have made the most sense. Hell, they could have put the Pete behind Trees. Regardless, Pederson has done nothing but drive fans and alumni away from Pitt. How many people have you ever heard say getting rid of Pitt script was a good idea? Getting rid of Pitt stadium was a good idea? Play football at Heinz Field - Brilliant! As Tony said, he completely mishandled the firing of Wannstedt and hiring of Haywood. Both of which were an utter debacle. For those two mistakes alone he should be fired. Instead he drives Pitt to mediocrity while cashing in his 600k plus paycheck. The MAC should have been courting Pitt, at least they are more up to our talent level. then again, I wouldn't be surprised if Toledo and Kent State would kick our a$$.
Chris,Based on a Trib article.... sounds like Chyrst is not tooo happy with some coaches.. Curious as to which but we will see at end of season if he releases any.
New Twitter rumor has Huxtable on hot seat...Very interesting...maybe go after DC Orlando from FIU? Florida recruiting ties, Pittsburgh guy, graduated from Wisconsin...throw some money at him seems like a no brainer to me.Also, did anyone see how Pitt coaches were screaming at players Sunday? It was reported by PR workers for Steelers that they couldn't concentrate because of all the yelling next door. Also saw that the seniors basically laughed it off. Curious to see if any repurcussions from this. Chryst looks mighty angry from Trib article today might look to send team a message.
Tony, you're wrong on so many fronts it's comical.1st) - the move to Heinz Field was the only logical thing to do - made tremendous economical sense and we now have one of the best facilities for BB2nd) - when Texas A&M offered Sherrill that contract - at the time it was so outrageous that NOONE thought Pitt should have matched it.3rd) - Jeff Long - "the idiot who hired Wannstedt"???? - at the time, everyone thought it was a tremendous hire...btw, Pederson hired DW not Long.His last 3 seasons at Pitt, Wannstedt was 27-12.That's one terrible coach yessir.You do have one thing right - Pederson did mishandle Wannstedt's firing but he should NEVER have fired him in the 1st place!Where are we now? - Yeah, great move.Chryst IS a dunderhead - you're right there."Pederson has given us a usually above average BB program that disintegrates after a few games in the NCAA"Seriously?#1 - the BB program has been WAY above averageAnd.... Pederson lets the team disintegrate in the NCAA's?He does that???? You mean, he should fire Dixon???Wow on that post.
Disagree with your Point #2...Everyone thought Pitt should have matched offer to keep Sherrill... except the AD and Posvar.I think the offer was 1.7 million for 6 years or something like that.. 300K/yr around.Chyrst gets 1.8 million per year.... and that is not the highest in college... the highest is about $4million/yr.My have times changed... but the money from college football with the tv deals, etc have changed it.
No way Joe D - at the time, it was like Texas A&M was offering the equivalent of $10 million per year today.I remember this like it was yesterday - the offer was over $3 million - - Pitt and everyone else said it was a ridiculous offer and it should not be matched.
http://www.nytimes.com/1982/01/20/sports/texas-a-m-signs-sherrill-to-richest-college-pact.htmlJoeD is correct.
While it made sense financially immediately to move to Heinz Field, it should have only been a stopgap until an on campus stadium can be built. It can not be underestimated how much atmosphere means to the fans, and most of all for the students, who should be thought of the most since it is their school. It's not great atmosphere to bus students to the games.I pretty much agree with the rest of what you say. Wannstedt was a good hire. He was worth a shot and he mostly did good.
Where, on campus, would they be able to build an on-campus facility?
Right - there isn't anyplace - Heinz was the right move - if we win, they will come period.
No where now. Their only opportunity was to rebuild/renovate Pitt Stadium. They could have Pitt the basketball arena behind Trees or replaced the Fieldhouse. Regardless, if Pitt really wanted to build a stadium on campus it would have to be towards the Hill District.
It's not just people coming. It's not all about money. It's about the experience. Fans and students at other schools have great memories of the festivities surrounding going to football games. At Pitt you get in a bus and drive down to the Steelers stadium. It's hardly a great time when compared to other places.
I don't disagree with that sentiment that it shouldn't just be about the money.But I think a lot of people are forgetting the economic realities of the area at the time (the mid 90's) these decisions were made.There were some rather major competing priorities for scarce tax dollars back in the late 90's when the shared approach to both Heinz Field and the UPMC Sports Performance complex were contemplated. PNC Park and the Convention Center were also in the mix... Anybody remember "Plan B"?Add another 120 Million for the Pete, which was desperately needed... wherever it was placed. That's over a Billion dollars of investments into a region that was still reeling from the collapse of the steel industry. To be honest, I was amazed to see all the forces align and get those projects done... I really did not think it could be pulled off. Its a lot to overcome for the sake of a game-day experience, eight times a year.
That's why I say it was acceptable as a stopgap measure but if other universities can make it happen then Pitt can, especially since Pitt has one of the biggest endowments in the country. They just don't want to make it happen. Nordenberg didn't want to do it the way it is now but Pederson convinced him. Football is what makes college athletics go around and therefore it has to get first priority in everything, including a place to stay.
Chris - will all due respect, I don't think you can draw a line between the size of Pitt's endowment and its ability to get funding for a $300 million stadium - the going rate as evidenced by UMinn. UMinn (similar endowment to Pitt) had to go to the state to get 1/2 of that money...and funded the rest with stadium naming rights and the sale of university land to the state, along with donations and student fees. So, they actually had to use some govt accounting smoke and mirrors to pull it off. That was initiated before the 2008 meltdown of the financial markets. Have to wonder if they could pull that off today?As for Pederson convincing Nordenberg about the plan for the Pete, I'm not so sure that was a big task. An executive tasked with balancing finances, strategy and intangibles... presented with the reality of constructing a modern football stadium in a shoe-horned footprint during the economic climate of the times...there really was no other choice than the one they made. I really doubt that when all the facts were laid out that was a tough sell to the BOT. Even if it was difficult knowing that Pitt Stadium would disappear.The real issue at hand is lack of available flat land adjacent to current campus footprint. Check out the "storied" football programs with longstanding stadiums. Most - but not all - have flat and available next to them. Even the Administration that built Pitt Stadium ran into that problem in the 1920's and the best they could do was the top of Cardiac Hill. And then they chose to surround it with other buildings, because like the football stadium...there was no other place to put them.One thing to remember with Pitt Stadium - it was not a "if you build it they will come" proposition. They were already sold out regularly at Forbes Field and needed more space...so I am told. But that's a whole different driver than what faced the Administration in the late 90's.Folks may not like the outcome but it was a rather inevitable one. Time to move on.
They could build one if they wanted one. Money will become available for funding from the state, it always does. They will talk big but give it away. Football drives all sports in college. Not sure why you don't believe that when there is overwhelming evidence to show it is the money sport. Basketball is second fiddle.No one likes walking down to the union, getting on a bus, and getting dropped off on the north shore.Then doing it all again to get back on campus. It sucks. I've been to Nebraska, Penn State, ND, and Michigan games and the game atmosphere is great, but also the campus feel is just great and rich with cool traditions that Pitt is completely lacking. Whats wrong with anonymous? Its comments on a blog not some Pulitzer writers. You can choose to ignore them but I don't see how it affects you life. I don't want to sign up for things.
More dodging by Chris. You have to answer the Huxtable rumors. You praised him to the high heavens and now he rumored to be let go and you are silent?
Do you even read this blog or do you just try to cause trouble? Nobody in their right mind thinks I've ever praised Huxtable. I've barely ever talked about the guy and when I did it was never high praise.
Chris - anonymous posts should be ignored and it would be OK with me if they were never added. At least some folks sign their names...its too hard to tell "which" Anonymous one is dealing with.
I don't like it either but I don't want people to have to sign up for anything just to post. It may prevent the casual poster.
Joe:There's nothing "inevitable" about Pitt football playing in their rent-a-stadium - a stadium that is really the Steelers despite whatever bullshit Pederson said about being equal tenants. Was Pederson consulted in the expansion plans the Steelers have for dear old Heinz? You say it's time to move on - you're right. Many of the empty seats in two weeks at the Steelers' stadium will represent many who have moved on from the sterile environment of the pro/college gameday experience. What will the actual attendance be? Less than 30,000? No matter if 15,000 actually show up, Pederson will announce it as 40,000.
Tony - I'm a FB season ticketholder and live 6 hrs away in Virginia. I make most of the games each year (all of them this year) and look forward to the experience. My group has a fun tailgate at each game. We are a good section...we've come to know the folks in our section and have a lot of fun.I'll be one of the 15,000-30,000 there for the Rutgers game.I attended many, many games at Pitt Stadium over the years and do not miss it one bit, but understand there are those that do. In the end, when the team has a big game, people show up...there were some exciting match-ups against VT, Miami, ND, Nebraska, etc during the Harris and Stache years...the stadium filled up quite nicely with Pitt fans. The heartbreaking game against Brian Kelly and the Bearcats was proof positive that a strong turnout of Pitt fans happens when the game is relevant. That one game is a prime example of "what can be". The missing ingredient is not the venue. Its the caliber of play.
Have to disagree Joe, the atmosphere is not even close to other big time programs even with the stadium is full plus, what I believe you are missing the point of, Pitt's campus has no buzz and feel. Go to a night white out game at PSU and tell me Pitt is even in the ballpark.
Pitt Basketball has 23 games at the Pete seating 12,500 or so....on campus, lots of buzz and excitement with BE b ball soon to be ACC. Football attendance by students for 8 football games doesn't come close to this...the primary reason is the off campus location. Others have pointed out the time & effort expended to get students to the football games at HF.....like it or not...it is a huge factor of weak attendance with a struggling, mediocre team. Cavernous Pitt stadium had similiar issues even in Pitt's heyday....the quality of the opponent greatly determined attendance...Pitt needs on on-campus stadium of 45-50 K. A well designed stadium will create a buzz for even lower-tier ACC games.....the scarcity of tickets for big games will make the game a "must see" event and go a long way to "selling" Pitt as a University community.
You make these claims deter but where? where is there space on campus? I am a student here and would love a stadium here but tell me where? Where would there be parking and tailgating that heinz field accommodates. I know heinz is trying to decrease that but there is some still at least. Present the space and i am sure a man like Pederson will even listen. You say on campus stadium and I bet alumni leap to give money to that. Its just a dry thought that will never happen. Face the facts. We will have to succeed at heinz field, well if we ever again
Zero ambiance for a college football game at Heinz Field. Period.If the Steelers ever fall on hard times, there will be Zero ambiamce for NFL football.The place is stark and lacks intimacy.A big part of the problem is the fact that the Rooneys got greedy and put in two levels of corporate boxes. This required having all the seating above club level to be higher off the ground and set farther back from the field than what would have been the case with a single row of boxes.Pederson made a really stupid choice by choosing to replace Pitt Stadium with the Pete. The smart decision would have been to tear down Pitt Stadium except for the old Roman facade and rebuild a new stadium behind it, minus the track. This would have allowed the seating to be closer to the field creating a more intimate setting for fans.What now?A new athletic director might surprise with a plan to build a new Pitt Stadium. There's always a way to do anything.However, the more likely scenario is Pitt continuing t play at Heinz Field.The University has an obligation to provide a better transportation option for students. The use of buses is such a bad idea that it should have been enough in itself to kill the idea of playing games off-campus.The solution is for the University to take the lead in completing plans already on the table to connect the City Subway system to Oakland.Not perfect. But beats riding a bus. It would save students from having to woorry about being left behind.PittofDreams
POD - "The solution is for the University to take the lead in completing plans already on the table to connect the City Subway system to Oakland."...fully agree that getting Oakland better connected to downtown/Heinz Field is important. An extension of the T to Oakland strikes me as very logical. But in the meantime, there are things that can be done immediately with a little more funding.Pitt students ride PAT for free as it is now, so a possible approach could be to:- run several - not a few, but several - more buses between Oakland and downtown. ALL DAY, not just before and after the games.- The Busway is already in place to make that ride more rapid- the subway tunnel built under the Allegheny River was really expensive. Yet, when I've taken it on game days (Pirates, Steelers, Pitt) it is clearly been underused. Run more trains on game days - ALL DAY, not just right before and after.In short, if an increase in the Oakland/Heinz field PAT capacity is expanded on game days - funded by Pitt - the trip could take 5-10 minutes without a wait. Not at all perfect, but an improvement over the current situation for the students and might encourage some alum to park/tailgate out in Oakland. Pitt could even decide to create some tailgating zones out in Oakland for those alum who really miss the on-campus experience.