Thursday, June 27, 2013

Elite WPIAL prospects have generally been better off at Pitt

Looking at WPIAL 4 and 5 star prospects, according to Rivals and Scout, from 2002-2011, to determine their success rate at Pittsburgh, Penn State, and for out of state.


*Steve Breaston, Michigan (Woodland Hills 2002)- 156 catches and one of the best return men ever in major college football, so it's safe to say that he was a huge success.

*Ryan Mundy, Michigan (Woodland Hills 2003)- He was never a star, but at least he started two seasons, the last one at WVU where he transferred as a fifth year senior. We'll call him a minor success though he clearly did not live up to his expectations.

Travis Thomas, Notre Dame (Washington 2003)- Ran for 409 yards as a running back and started one year at linebacker where he was tenth in tackles. He can't really be called a success.

Kevin McCabe, Virginia (Pine-Richland 2003)- Played very sparingly before transferring to California (PA) in his last season.

Rory Nicol, Ohio State (Beaver, 2004)- 38 catches in his career.

Devon Lyons, Ohio State (Woodland Hills, 2004)-  2 career catches then transferred to WVU where he quit before playing a down.

Andrew Johnson, Miami (North Hills, 2004)- Played three seasons at Miami before transferring to Akron.  He ran for a total of 450 yards in his career.

Chris Rogers, Michigan (North Allegheny 2004)- Transferred after one season to Penn State and never had much of a career.

*Darrin Walls, Notre Dame (2006)- He left one year for personal reasons and he never became a star but  he did start for two years so we will call him a minor success.

*Rob Gronkowski, Arizona (Woodland Hills 2007)- He was only a WPIAL kid for a year since he moved from Buffalo to play in the area, so he really wasn't your normal WPIAL kid, but he did become all-conference and was considered one of the better tight ends in the country.

Toney Clemons, Michigan (Valley 2007)- Had a decent career after he transferred to Colorado after his freshman season, but the for the sake of this study you have to say he was not a success because he transferred from the school he originally left the area for.

Steve Paskorz, Notre Dame (Hampton 2007)- Career backup.

Andrew Devlin, Virginia (Mt. Lebanon 2007)- Transferred to Pitt.

*Terrelle Pryor, Ohio State (Jeannette 2008)- Things got ugly for him, and he never lived up to his huge expectations, but he was also the runner up to Denard Robinson as Big 10 player of the year. Technically on the field he did enough to be called a success, and for the sake of this story we'll call him that, but it many ways you can also say he failed.

*Andrew Sweat, Ohio State (Trinity 2008)- Never was a star but he started and was second team all-conference as a senior so he was a minor success on the field.

Christian Wilson, North Carolina (Montour 2008)- 22 career catches as a tight end.

Kaleb Ramsey, Boston College (Laurel Highlands 2008)- Played six seasons but only accumulated 62 total tackles.

Dorian Bell, Ohio State (Gateway 2009)- He got suspended at Ohio State and ended up at Duquesne.

Corey Brown, Ohio State (Gateway 2009)-  May start as a fifth year senior but has been a reserve throughout his career.

*Jordan Hall, Ohio State (Jeanette 2009)-  Ran for just 1,032 yards in his career but got a fifth year due to injuries and he's expected to be the slotback. His top season was only 405 yards rushing but I'll add in his return skills and call him a success.

Ken Wilkins, Michigan (Trinity 2010)- Transferred after his redshirt sophomore season. He did not play a single down.

Cullen Christian, Michigan (Penn Hills 2010)- Transferred to Pitt.

Delvon Simmons, Texas Tech (McKeesport 2011)- He just transferred to USC so he could still turn out to be a very good player, but so far he has started one season and had 27 tackles in that season.

Total: 23
Success: 7 
Ratio: 30%


Mark Farris (North Hills 2002)- Rarely played at all.

Brian Borgoyn (Woodland Hills 2002)- Career ended before it started because of an injury.

*Paul Posluszny, Penn State (Hopewell 2003)- Went down as one of the better linebackers in college football history.

*Anthony Morelli (Penn Hills 2004)- Though he was a major disappointment, because of his 5,275 passing yards over his last two seasons, I will call him a success for the sake of this article.

*A.Q. Shipley (Moon 2004)- All-American and Rimington Award winner.

*Tyrell Sales (Butler 2004)- Two year starter.

*Justin King (Gateway 2005)- Didn't live up to the huge expectations for him but he was a two year starter for leaving for the NFL after his junior year.

*Stefen Wisniewski (Pittsburgh Central Catholic 2007)- Three year starter, all-coference, and had some All-American recognition.

*Nick Sukay (Greensburg Central Catholic 2007)- Two year starter.

Jon Ditto (Gateway 2007)- Played little and transferred to IUP.

*Derek Moye (Rochester 2007)- Ended his career with 2,395 receiving yards.

Mike Yancich (Trinity 2008)- Career reserve and special teams player.

*Miles Dieffenbach (Fox Chapel 2010)- As a redshirt junior this season he is starting for the second year.

Mike Hull (Canon McMillan 2010)- There is a lot of talk from Penn State that he will break through in this, his redshirt junior season, but he hasn't started yet so for now he will not be considered a success.

Paul Jones (Sto- Rox 2010)- Transferred to Robert Morris.

Tom Ricketts (North Allegheny 2010)- Transferred to Pitt then left after a year.

Total: 16
Success: 9
Ratio: 56%


*Tyler Palko (West Allegheny 2002)- Three year started who threw for over 8,300 yards in his career.

Steve Buches (Pittsburgh Central Catholic 2002)- 52 career receptions at tight end.

Craig Bokor (Hopewell 2005)- Played sparingly. 

*Dorin Dickerson (West Allegheny 2006)- Bounced around at different positions until as a senior he became an All-American tight end.

*John Malecki (Franklin Regional 2006)- Never a star but lettered for four years and started the last two years on the offensive line.

Aaron Smith (Gateway 2006)- Career reserve.

Elijah Fields (Duquesne 2006)- Started as a junior then was kicked off the team before senior season. 

*Jason Pinkston (Baldwin 2006)- Three year starter, all-conference, and some All-American recognition as a senior.

Nate Nix (Thomas Jefferson 2006)- Career reserve and special teams player. 

*Chris Jacobson (Keystone Oaks 2007)- He wasn't a huge star but he was a three year starter. 

*Brandon Lindsey (Aliquippa 2007)- Two year starter and all-conference player. 

*Dom DeCicco (Thomas Jefferson 2007)- Three year starter and all-conference player.

*Myles Caragein (Keystone Oaks 2007)- two year starter and amassed 74 tackles in those two seasons. 

*Jonathan Baldwin (Aliquippa 2008)- Left to become first round pick after junior season but before that he was a two year starter and amassed 1,902 receiving yards in those two seasons.

Cameron Saddler (Gateway 2008)- Played mostly as a reserve and as a return man.

*Lucas Nix (Thomas Jefferson 2008)- Never became a big star but he was a three year starter 

Shayne Hale (Gateway 2008)- Performed well at the end of his career but was mostly a reserve.

*Dan Mason (Penn Hills 2009)- Two year starter that never lived up expectations due to major issues. 

*Todd Thomas (Beaver Falls 2009)- Only a redshirt junior because of an injury redshirt and a prep school season, but he's considered the best linebacker on the team and a potential star. Will start his second season this year.

*Tyrone Ezell (2009)- Has 39 tackles as a giant defensive lineman and will be a two year starter and a four year letterman after this season.

*Aaron Donald (Penn Hills 2010)- All-conference and an All-American candidate. Considered one of the best defensive lineman in the country.

Total: 21
Success: 14
Ratio: 67%


  1. Interesting assessment and yet not surprising. I've always felt that Pitt's urban campus demands more maturity from its students, athlete or not. And I'd argue that the successful players here have collectively demonstrated more maturity than those who have failed to live up to their potential. Also, this list further supports my contention that Greensburg/Monroeville suck ;-)

  2. The list shows Gateway players are over-rated or that Terry Smith did a hellava job promoting his players to Rivals/Scout, etc or both.

    1. Not only Gateway, but McKeesport as well. No need to get upset of a Gateway kid doesn't go to Pitt.

  3. Let's hope the perception of PITT's football program is raised in the local recruits eyes as soon as possible then.

    Good info, thanks

  4. Unless I'm missing someone, I see three players from the Greensburg area: Pryor, Hall, and Sukay. They all seem pretty good to me. Also Mike Shanahan was from that area, although he wasn't as highly recruited, he turned out very good. I don't see how you can say the Greensburg area sucks?

    1. Who said Greensburg area sucks? Learn to read!

    2. Who said anything about Greensburg area sucks? Learn to read!

    3. The first post specifically says "Greensburg/Monroeville suck," this wasn't my original post, but... learn to read.

  5. Excellent job Chris. I'm glad somebody has final taken a look at the evidence and prove that A) Many WPIAL do not live up to the hype that others have bestowed upon them. B) Getting 4 star players is not a guarantee of team success. C)MANY would have been much better off playing at Pitt.

    Call me Sam....

  6. How many of these players got drafted by NFL??
    Some are still in school, but getting drafted is what a 4/5star are looking for.

    Also, very surprised Adams went at #12.

    1. The uninformed are frequently surprised.

  7. Being a 4/5 star out of high school doesn't really mean that much anymore because these recruiting services have really skewed the evaluation process with these kids. Half of their evaluation comes from watching these kids play, as Mike tomlin refers to it "football in shorts", which means next to nothing other than gauging a kid's pure athletic ability. That doesn't necessarily make him at the very least a good football player.

    I trust coaches evaluations much more than a recruiting service(s), because they actually know what they're looking for in a kid. Stache was hailed as a great recruiter and brought in a lot of classes loaded with 4/5 stars, but never really did much with them because outside of linemen and receivers, he recruited a lot of athletes that didn't progress at the D1 level. PC seems to be bringin in his type of player, so the jury is still out in his second year. But I'm not going to throw a hissy just because the kid doesn't have 4/5 stars next to his name.

    Mike W.

    1. So then if you don't like or agree with star ratings...
      you must agree that coaches know how to evaluate players...
      therefore, number of offers and what schools offer matter.

      One can then conclude the Pitt class "so far" is nothing more than a MAC/Patriot League team class based upon offers.

      You just can't say.... stars don't matter AND offers don't matter.

    2. Joe D; What good is giving out 139 offers if you can only take 20?

    3. frankarms,
      what does your comment have to do with stars and offers?
      But, it is typical that BCS teams give out 150 to 200 offers. It's partly a numbers game of 8:1 ratio of offers to committs.
      Keep in mind, when a team reaches their "position quota" they will pull offers from kids but you don't see that on rivals/scout.

  8. one of the disadvantages at PSU is that you have to compete with other 4 star players ... and subsequently don't get the opportunity of meaningful PT as you would at Pitt.

    The primary issue for Mason at Pitt was devastating injury .... other than that most wouldn't have even attempted a comeback. While it ended badly, he was on schedule to be an all-timer

    1. Borgoyn was injured before he began so we don't know he would have been, and the jury is still out on Hull, but the rest of them were major flops. So quality depth had nothing to do with it in this case.

    2. I was trying to make the case why Pitt may be a better option for these guys

  9. So, did WVU not land any 4-star or 5-star WPIAL players over this time period? (I would think they would've, right?)

    1. According to Rivals rankings, no they did not.

  10. As expected, Keller chooses Stanford. You'd think someone with such a track record of developing NFL QBs wouldn't strike out on so many QB targets.

    1. Because his brother Geep is better at developing QB's.
      Staying at Stanford will allow Geep to assist his son.

      And, who did Chryst develop that went on to NFL?
      Chryst can't take credit for Russel Wilson as he was a transfer from NCState and was pretty damn good before he got to Wisky.
      Sunseri had a good year. Chryst adjusted play calling to what Sunseri could do... short passes and handoff.

      He is striking out on so many QB targets because Chryst and crew don't know how to recruit.

  11. I think you have been too hard on Pryor and Clemons.

    Regarding Pryor, it is almost impossible to live up to the expectations of being the number one rated player in the country coming out of high school. But he did start for three years, including his freshman year when he beat out the previous year's Big 10 first team qb to win the job. And I think OSU won the Big 10 all three years he was there. And OSU did win a Rose Bowl while Pryor was there. He didn't win the Heisman, but he was a force at qb for one of the best teams in the country all three years that he was there.

    As for Clemons, the fact that he transferred should not seem to be a factor. The fact that he had a good career at Colorado should make him a success.

    1. I wasn't hard on Pryor. I said he was considered a success on the field for the most part but nobody can deny that in many ways he was a failure. I mean, he never lived up to expectations, he missed his final season because of something he did, and his name is now considered a dirty word in Columbus.

      As for Clemons, I consider him a success as a college football player because of what he did at Colorado, but as the post is to determine if local kids are better off staying home, well, he failed at Michigan, so that was a big mistake to choose them.

    2. Chris you are 100% spot on with your evaluation of Pryor. He did not play up to a 5 star best high school player in the nation level. He was never all conference in the three years he played. In fact, he wasn't even named the MVP of his own team in those same three years! If he went to Pitt and played WR as Wannstedt suggested, he'd be an NFL starter right now.But he did his way...Hopefully that will give him comfort as he sits on the bench.

    3. The guy like a 36-3 record at osu if memory serves me correctly. If he didnt live up to expectations thats because they were unrealistic

    4. The guy like a 36-3 record at osu if memory serves me correctly. If he didnt live up to expectations thats because they were unrealistic

    5. "The guy like a 36-3 record at osu if memory serves me correctly. If he didnt live up to expectations thats because they were unrealistic"

      Ohio State won as many games over the previous three years than the three years Pryor was there. He never lived up to the hype. Part of it was his fault. Too interested in driving 8 different cars while he was there, and getting tattoos. He played more like a 4 star player than a 5 star best player coming out of high school.

  12. Rushel Shell options down to WVU.
    Rejected by OSU and Kentucky. Seems Toni Zuccaro quotes were not true.
    Rowland is Rivals reporter for Kentucky.

    J.Rowland ‏@RowlandRIVALS 9h

    In fact, was told (contrary to @espn report) that Shell is not even expected as a visitor at UK.

    J.Rowland J.Rowland ‏@RowlandRIVALS 9h

    Was told once again tonight that Rushel Shell is not an option for UK.


  13. Chris...

    Great angle on a story here. However, see one possible flaw in the analysis.

    Think maybe that the high success rate at Pitt could be tainted somewhat by the fact that in comparison to Penn State and some of the other teams... Pitt may have presented less competition for "Elite" players when it came to earning starting positions.

    Simply gauging success according to whether a player was a "starter" probably skews your findings a bit in favor of Pitt.


    1. That's not a flaw. That's one of the points of the post is that you can play at Pitt but at other places you won't see the field.

      But also, like I already said in the comment section, you can't say most of the players that failed failed because they had better players in front of them. A large portion of them flat out sucked.


  14. Error...

    Really surprised learning that Keller Chryst has picked Stanford.

    Unless something changed dramatically to sway Keller toward Stanford... it now seems to make no sense at all that his uncle publicized the fact that he was extending an offer.

    I had Chryst coming to Pitt all the way... admittedly wrong on this one.


    1. POD,

      I'm disappointed, but not surprised that Keller picked Stanford. It's close to home, an excellent academic institution and football program.

      I agree about Chryst not offering Keller unless he was sure he'd be committing to Pitt.

      Best of luck to the young man.


  15. Regarding the quarterback situation...

    According to the Trib Review, the pre-trial hearing for Tra'von Chapman scheduled for June 27 has been delayed. Reportedly, it's due to a scheduling conflict involving Chapman's attorney.

    Given that this is the second time pre-trial hearing has been delayed... got to think it has more to do with Chapman's attorney still working behind the scenes... and so far unsuccessfully... for some kind of a deal to have the charges dropped.

    Probably working with the knowledge that anything less than the charges being dropped means Chapman's days at Pitt would be over.


    1. Maybe that is why Chryst is looking for 2 QB's in this class.
      I thought it was odd that 1 QB committed and Chryst still looking. Kinda shows Chryst hand on the matter.

  16. Re Clemons, just because a kid transfers after one year doesn't necessarily mean he failed. Maybe he just didn't like it at Michigan. But that's not to say to he should have chosen Pitt. He was a success at Colorado, so he deserves an asterisk.

  17. I don't think it shows his hand. He flat outneeds more QBs on the roster. After this season he's down to Voytik, maybe Chapman, and Trey, who should have never even been considered a D1 QB from the get to. You can make a strong argument that Chryst should be bringing in 3 QBs in this class, but 2 is an absolute must at this point.

    1. I feel like they're still playing catchup from wanstadt never bringing in enough QBs. I mean he got stull and tino who both stuck around and played, but bostic didn't finish his career, and Meyers washed out. Aren't you supposed to bring in at least one QB every year so you have 4-5 on the roster at all times?


    2. Agree that Chryst needs another QB or two. Below some of the top rated uncommitted QBs in the country.

      By the way, growing a little tired of people "unwittingly" slamming Trey Anderson.

      In order to refresh some memories, the kid was thrown to the wolves as a true freshman by Graham. He actually showed some promise as a play maker at the beginning but went downhill as the season progressed, partly due to the tumult that took over the team and a lot due to a debilitating case of tendonitis in his wrist. A little tough to quarterback against a defense like Utah when you can't throw the ball forty yards.

      Despite everything, Anderson never made an excuse, never complained. The ultimate team player and coaches player.

      I think he deserves a little respect.

      That said, here are the names, none of which are likely to ever appear on a Pitt uniform.

      Brandon Harris

      Brandon Dawkins

      Drew Parker

      Tyler Harris

      Deshaun Watson


    3. Look, in not bashing the kid, and I'm certainty not blaming him for anything. I actually think what he's done is commendable. Kid took a chance and walked on and earned a scholarship. It doesn't matter that he earned more out of necessity than merit. He put himself in a good position and it worked out for him and he's going to end up with a degree from one of the finest institutions in the country.

      My point was just that he should not have been expected to contribute as a D1 QB, especially at the BCS level. And that fact has contributed to the lack of depth at QB that is staring Chryst in the face.

    4. 4 QB's on a roster is plenty.
      More than that and they will transfer.
      So, if Chryst is bringing in 2 QB's this year, that means Chapman is out... in my opinion. Big loss.

      I doubt he is telling the QB's we will work you out at QB and perhaps switch you to another position. Rollins of Monessen went to WVU early and is transfering out because he wants to play QB.

    5. 4 QBs is plenty as long as trey isn't one of them. You cannot count on him to compete at this level. He is just not physically capable. Again, I don't want to bash on him at all, but he's an unathletic 5"10 QB with a dodgy wrist and a week arm.

      I mean what happens if Chapman gets kicked off the team, and when 2014 rolls around Voytik gets nicked up for a few games? You're staring at Trey, or a couple of true freshman? This is a serious issue...

    6. I forgot about Chavis though... Did he end up enrollig at Pitt? And if he did, is he working out with the QBs?

    7. Rollins is NOT a D-1 QB.
      He went to WVU early, participated in spring drills and woke up. WVU used the tactic to get him to commit. He saw he never had a chance to be QB at WVU. He can't hit the side of a barn. I don't know if he is D2 QB. He is an athlete but it doesn't mean he is a QB.
      Pitt is not interested in Rollins as QB.

    8. So did he enroll or not, that was the first part of the question... And I know both he and his brother are tremendous athletes. Played football AND soccer at a high level, which are both played in the fall... That's almost as good as running track!

    9. Last sentence... No.
      He wants to go to a school where he can be QB.
      Your definition of "high level" soccer and football differ from my definition.
      They play Single A football in wpial... not good.
      They do not play for Beadling soccer!
      Kick and run is not soccer.

    10. I'm not gonna nit pick you to death on this one, I will just say that even if they don't play for Beadling and they're not winning state cups, playing soccer is a big benefit. The agility, coordination, and endurance required to play that game will only help improve their performance on the football field.

  18. Why would you pull the offer from kincaide when you need more qb?


    1. Believe it wast Kincade was the one who pulled out. Personally, thought the kid looked pretty promising. The word on the street was he was also a natural leader.

      But a good question otherwise. Part of the answer might be that Chryst was among those who didn't see future starter. The fact that he's headed to Akron would seem to attest to that.

      However, the other answer could be that Paul Chryst was riding on his nephew actually coming to Pitt, thus the lack of interest in Kincade.... and something changed during the last month or two to dramatically things and causing Keller to commit to Stanford?


    2. Excellent question... I can only imagine that Chryst just really didn't want him, and he's got enough confidence that's he's going to be able to brig someone else in.

    3. Chryst and Bollinger were not into Kincade. It's that simple.

    4. POD,
      Keller going to Pitt is a pipedream.
      I for one am not going to beat on HC Chryst for not landing his nephew. It was a 1% chance at best.
      I'm sure Keller's dad said Stanford is better choice for numerous reasons (proximity, team, etc) AND Geep can participate to continue to develop his son.

  19. I am guessing chapman is done at Pitt then. Why cant athletes stay out of trouble? Everything I read about him seemed like a character guy. Was there any indication beforehand about his character?

  20. Back to the original subject of this article, I disagree with what you say about Pryor in two ways.

    First, you say that technically he did well enough on the field to be a success. The word "technically" suggests he was a success on the field only according to some kind of narrow definition. However, Pryor was one of the better quarterbacks in the country when he played.

    Second, although he got into trouble which ended his college career prematurely, to bring that into the mix is suggesting that he wouldn't have gotten into trouble if he had gone to Pitt. You really can't make that assumption.

    1. You're nitpicking considering he has an asterisk by his name.

    2. Pryor actually was the MVP in both the Rose Bowl as a soph, and the Sugar Bowl as a junior .. and also among the top in many QB categories at OSU.

      Yet, his name is mud among the OSU faithful because they all blame him for Tressel troubles, even though Pryor was just one of many players for many years to trade OSU merchandise for tattoos and such.

  21. Yes, he has an asterisk by his name, but it is a very grudging asterisk. I disagree with the off-target analysis leading up to that grudging asterisk.

    And, as already noted, I also disagree with the off-target reasoning for not giving Clemons an asterisk.

    1. I said he was a success on the field but in many ways he failed. I think you may be the only person alive who doesn't agree with that. I mean, he got suspended and they hate him there. I would call that part of his college career a failure.

  22. No one who is alive thinks that Pryor was not ultimately a failure at OSU, and that includes me. However, the point of your study is that Pryor would have been less likely to get into trouble if he had gone to Pitt, and my point is that you cannot make that assumption. At least you are now saying that he was a success on the field without adding qualifiers which detract from his success.

  23. Dokish getting into a twitter battle with Justin of PittBlather is an unfair fight. LOL
    Justin is a clueless koolaid drinking inexperienced (under 25) kid who hasn't done any analysis of what it takes to be successful in college football.

    There is a correlation of class rank to final rank.
    It's not 1 to 1 but it is significant statistically.
    Exclude incoming class and look at 3 year average class rank.

    Alabama has had the #1 ranked class for 4 of the past 5 years... and was ranked #1 after the bowls in 2012 season.
    Of the top 20 ranked class (3yr average), 14 landed in Top 20 final rank after bowls in 2012 season.

  24. Freebeck is slow, slow, slow.
    Must be the slowest football player in the state of Florida.
    Also, skinny, skinny, skinny.
    6'3", 180#...
    Does 40 in 5.28!!!! I can run faster than that!! My daughter in 10th grade can run faster than that!
    That's Olineman speed... but they are carrying 300#.

    1. How fast was Dan Marino, Joe D???????

    2. He had surgery that slowed him down.

  25. Did you watch his junior highlights? He doesn't look that slow..

  26. Joe D,

    Did you watch his junior highlight tape? He doesn't look near as slow as what times your posting

    1. That is what he ran at a combine and it is posted on his ESPN profile.

  27. JoeD--5.28 Run (limping probably) on an injured ankle he had all last season.

    1. You don't toe the line then!!
      It was at a combine!!
      Geesh... everyone making excuses for this kid already. It is what it is! Stopwatch don't lie. But the excuses are abundant!

    2. The question still stands Joe D., How fast was Dan Marino???? I don't give a damn how fast he is if he can get rid of the ball and avoid a rush. He is a pro-style QB, not a dual threat. SHEESH!!!!!!

    3. Do you realize how slow 5.28 is?
      Prostyle are not expected to be fast but at least 4.8ish.
      He won't be able to avoid the rush at 5.28!!! That's the point.

    4. I'm not sure why this isn't sinking in. He had a recurring ankle injury all year and had surgery after the season. Clearly that would effect his running.

    5. Marino 40 was 4.89.

      If injured, you don't go to a combine which tests your running and quickness ability. And he ran so slow, he should have run it again.
      It may also have been a 40time from his sophmore year.
      Don't know.

    6. Tom Brady ran a 6.0 at the NFL combine. If Freebeck is gonna stand back in the pocket and sling it, I'm not sure why running a 5.28 is important.

    7. Brady did not run 6.0... geesh you people make stuff up.

      Brady was a 6th rounder? I believe the turnoff was his measurables, he was skinny, lacked strength, and didn't workout. But he once he got into the NFL he turned it around.

    8. Brady ran a 5.28 at the combine.

    9. I googled that also Dokes before I posted that Anonymous made that up. Just wondered if Anonymous 7:57 was going to respond.
      Real easy to google stuff.
      Maybe that is why he doesn't put his name on it!
      Brady had decent quickness... his shuttle was 4.38 which is surprising that his 40 was 5.28. Typically a .4 difference.
      But vertical was like 24.5" showing weak legs.
      NFL coaches were concerned about his work ethic which is why he fell to 6th round.

    10. Are we really talking about a QB's, 40 time. Who and the hell cares. Since when do pocket passers like Flacco, Manning, Brady etc run 40 yards in a sprint in there shorts during a game.

      Can he sling it and read a defense. That's all I care about. I don't know if he can but I don't care how fast my drop back QB is. It's one thing if we ran the option.

    11. Just please stop talking please for the sake of everyone who reads this site

    12. KRF, you beat me to it. I didn't realize 40 time was more important that arm strength, accuracy, awareness, etc.

      Rivals listed Tino Sunseri as running a 4.7 in the 40. Would you still want him if he was three-tenths of a second faster and ran a 4.4?

      Here's a hint: Chavas Rowlins, who's discussed earlier in this thread as not being a Div II QB, runs a 4.4

  28. Do we know what division of HS footbball he plays in? Btw, didn't he have a UF OFFER at one point. I think that would speak of his ability to play the qb position. Sounds like a character guy that had obstacles to overcome. What impresses me about him that he is willing to work hard

    1. He will be playing at st thomas aquinas this year which is a factory

  29. They have high school combines?


    1. Yep... big business.
      I believe Nike sparq combines are free.

  30. Chris - can you compare O'Brien and Chryst thus far in their careers and recruiting ability. Thanks.

  31. Comparing Obrien and Chryst is impossible. Both stepped into different situations from a player perspective, a historical perspective and a conference affiliation perspective.

    Some will say PSU recruiting is at a disadvantage because of the 4yr penalty and restrictions. Penn State will continue to get 3 and 4 star players because their history and gameday atmosphere projects that way. The entire Penn State culture supports football first, nothing has changed there.

    Paul Chryst does not have the support that Obrien has. Not even close. Let's wait three yeas and see what the product looks like on the field. Right now, it is too early to make comparisons fr the reasons stated above. For the reasons of "program maturity", this analysis is a waste. For anyone to compare the two ight now, would be futile at best. 11:33 Anonymous, speak in realities when they are measurable. That is why you remain anonymous. I sign my posts, good or bad!

    As far as speed goes with a qb, it just doesn't matter. Quickness is more important than straight away speed. So any Je D isms, are pointless. Funny how everyone turns to marino, brady and jared lorensen for that matter. Lorenson ran his 40 over two days. Pitt would trade for any of those so speed for a qb just ain't all that.

    1. Unless your parents named you @talent evalu8r", then you are posting anonymously too


    2. Actually it's pseudonymous‎ly not anonymously.

      Point being using a pseudonym instead of being just anonymous serves the purpose of leaving a "paper trail" allowing readers to weigh a poster's comment in the context of their previous posts.

      But you knew this already.


    3. One thing to keep in mind is how many of them were big time Penn State fans in the first place and don't care about the sanctions?

      I know the TE (Brenneman?) was one, and the QB Hackenburg is clearly living out his Dad's dream.
      Maybe those are the only 2, but I doubt it.

      Also remember it's just year one. Charlie Weiss looked like he'd be the answer Notre Dame was looking for during his first 2 years there. The final 3 was another story.
      (his classes were ranked #8, #8, #2, and #21, BTW)

    4. I don't post as anonymous. The problem with anonymous posters is that when they state something of import, they can't get credit. Difficult to engage discussion with an anonymous.

      Similarly, when you have nothing to add to the conversation as you did here pique, that equates to a waste of 5 seconds that many will never get back in their lives, but will fall squarely and be associated to you. Unless of course you aren't the real pique as named by your parents. Glad you enjoyed the premise of the post. LOL

    5. If people read my post thats their choice and you cared about saving precious seconds of your life, as you stated eloquently, then you likely wouldnt have responded.

      Pittofdreams, you are correct. However i find it amusing that people view "anonymous" posters as cowards when i dont know them any more than i would "anonymous" just because they use a pen name.

      As for the football discussion, i couldnt care less about my qbs forty time. Does he have intangibles? Pocket presence? High football iq? These are far more important aspects

    6. you made my point pique. If it is your posts for example, I wouldn't read it because you are identified as the poster. I would do the same to many other anonymous posters if they would only have a moniker.

      never wrote 5 seconds of my life. critical reading skills, sorry ace. I do appreciate what you bring to the board, but doesn't mean I will back down when you turn to silliness, as I just did above.

    7. Agree with pk. so funny he thinks talent evalu8r isn't.

  32. Marino . . . slow, slow, slow
    Brady . . .. slow, slow, slow
    Lets all pray to whatever high power we each believe in that Freebeck is as "slow" as these two incompetent QBs.

    Facts are facts, and sometimes they just don't support your argument. Admit your mistake, it helps the soul.

  33. Rivals evals are not very accurate. Hard to believe Sean Lee was not a top recruit. I do believe that in past if you had choice between Big Ten or Big East ...the Big Ten would be the choice. Now with the ACC that might change. Another factor raised earlier is the fact of more competition at Penn State. Another factor in a players success could be turnover of coaching staff.

  34. This information (altough subjective) is all well and good, but it is not 1980 anymore. The WPIAL does not produce enough top-quality players to make Pitt a top-10 program anymore. Pitt is not attractive enough to players from outside of Western Pennsylvania to come there. Penn St. and West Virginia have done a much better job at recruiting players from other areas and that is why Pitt is not in their class anymore. Now that Jamie Dixon has lost New York City as a recruting base (by leaving the Big East) he will quickly learn how hard it is to recruit players from outside of Western Pennsylvania to come to Pitt.
    Enjoy being in the bottom %25 of the ACC in football and men's basketball.

  35. How many of these kids actually earned a degree? I'd be interested knowing that.


  36. Freebeck looks to have a really quick and smooth release. Seems also to know exactly where he wants to go with the ball.

    If he continues to play at the same level this fall after jumping up to play with powerhouse St. Thomas Aquinas, Pitt will be likely to hold on to him in the face of the offers that will likely be coming in from a lot of other programs.



  37. Throwing out another name that Chryst should at least take a look at.

    Austin Herink... 6-2 215 Class of 2014... As a junior, the lefthander totaled 202 completions, 316 attempts(63.9%) for 2,284 yards in (10) games. 20 touchdowns and six interceptions.

    Herink tells FoxSportsNext... "Tennessee, Mississippi State, and Duke are the schools that I’ve had the most contact with lately."

    Herink was Chad Voytik's replacement at Cleveland High School in Tennessee.

    Admittedly, Herink does not jump off the tape as a top notch athlete. But he is a play maker and throws a "beautiful" ball according to scouts.

    With no major offers yet, his future is obviously going to depend on the numbers and wins he is able to put up this year as a senior.


    1. my brother lives down there and has indicated this kid is pretty good.

  38. Rumors... looks like Rushel Shell is down to CalU and IUP unless he considers a MAC school.
    WVU not that interested.
    OSU and Kentucky already said NO.

    It wouldn't surprise me if he considers PSU!!

    1. Bill O'Brien would not waste a limited, valuable scholarship on him. He would have to walk-on and pay his own way, and even then I don't see it...

      Man, talk about just throwing everything away... He was set to start, and feature in the ACC, with no one there to challenge him. And now he's going to be chasing PSAC conference titles as a Vulcan? This from the State's all time leading rusher.

      And for what, because he didn't want to practice?!? What a joke... What a waste... Kid better hope he gets a degree from somewhere...Can't believe you called this two years ago lol... Unbelievable.


  39. Obviously, with OSU "no"... seems it was a bit generous to even compare Shell to Clarett.

    The kid might want to really rethink taking seriously the opportunity to get a good college education... for the sake of his daughters.

    Looking more and more like college football might serve as a means to an end for Rushel, but not the way he thought.


  40. Here's my wishlist for QB recruits:

    - leader on the field and off
    - mentally tough, clutch performer
    - smart, can make quick reads
    - solid citizen
    - decent arm strength
    - throwing accuracy
    - good touch on the ball

    I haven't really thought about a ranking of the above, but would place all of those above track times.


  41. OK... Like aggravating an already painful tooth... here's a breakdown on Keller Chryst from the ongoing Elite 11 QB competition.


    Keller Chryst of Palo Alto (Calif.) also had an impressive day. Chryst is listed at 6'3 and 215 pounds, but I think he is an inch taller and perhaps 10 pounds heavier. He already looks like a college player. Chryst has excellent touch and plenty of arm, and Dilfer raved about his ability to put the right amount of touch on the football. He also said that Chryst has very good feet, and even guarded the opposing point guard when Dilfer recently watched him play in a basketball game. Chryst is committed to Stanford.


  42. After a painfully slow start, it looks like recruiting has leveled off. The Panthers have added some nice names to their recruiting class and have moved up to 35th (rivals) ahead of South Carolina, Oregon, Nebraska and USC. Obviously that is likely to change over the next several months, but I think it's a good start. What could really make this a strong class is if Pitt gets off to a strong start on the field. Chryst has certainly added size up front which should be interesting. If Savage has a NFL-caliber arm, I could see Pitt winning as many as 7 games. I'd love to see Pitt end strong by locking up the local talent. I was even more excited to find out that their latest recruit is from FLA.

  43. The prospect/rating sites are abject failures. They base too much of their information on whether or not a kid signs up and attends their camps. The star system has to go. Pay it no mind. There is too much disparity between sights. Has anyone compaired the players on these sites? What a joke. Look at two WPIAL players at the same position Grimm and Bookser. Rivals rated Grimm a 4* player. He has offers from Pitt, WVU, BC, Ariz. Pedo State didn't even offer him. Rivals has Bookster at 3*'s. He has offers from, Ohio State, Alabama, USC, Penn State and many more. If I had to make a choice I'd believe the coaches offers a lot more than these recruiting sites.

  44. Sean Lee is playing on Sundays?