Wednesday, December 11, 2013

Aaron Donald wins Lombardi Award

Pitt senior defensive tackle Aaron Donald won his second major award of the week winning the Lombardi Award given to the best defensive lineman or linebacker in the country. Previously he won the Bronco Nagurski Trophy given to the best defensive player in the nation. Hugh Green, in 1980, was the only other Panther to win the award.  Only Tony Dorsett and Hugh Green, each with three, have more major awards for the program, but Donald could surpass that since he is a finalist for the Bednarik Award and the Outland Trophy.

111 comments:

  1. A well deserved award Panther nation... the best individual player (and most decorated) at Pitt since Larry Fitzgerald won every major award (sans the Heisman) in 2003. It was a joy watching this lightly regarded, overlooked Pittsburgh kid turn into a bonafide superstar. HAIL to Pitt!

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  2. Congrats to Aaron Donald.
    Regarding awards, some of those awards weren't given out back in the day of Dorsett and Green.
    Nagurski started in 1993.
    Bednarik started in 1995

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  3. Congratulations to Aaron Donald. Thank you for being a Pitt Panther. Got to see his performance at two games in person including the Georgia Tech game. I also got to see Hugh Green play in person and Aaron is definitely his equal in overall effectiveness. Never thought I would live to see another Panther as awesome as him.

    As many probably have, I checked back to his ESPN rating for his recruiting class. He was a four star recruit same as Gonzalez and Todd Thomas.

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  4. You never know what you're going to get when you recruit a kid, that's why it's not worth the tears when you lose a kid to say... WVU. For every potential "superstar" you miss on you get a player that actually is a superstar. Congrats again, AD and Pitt!

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  5. Congrats, Aaron!

    Imagine if the Stache was still around and there were defensive ends who could actually rush the passer flanking you? The kid at Michigan State and possibly Hamilton or Spence would be the other. Donald may have posted even better numbers.

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    Replies
    1. Really… having the fullback lined up next to him shows what a complete cluster this team is in.

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  6. Congrats to Aaron Donald.
    Pitt Athletic Dept. is doing a nice job also. Just saw a highlight film of AD which had comments from ACC coaches as well as interview with Hargrove. Very nice.

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  7. Ridiculous that he's not getting an invite to New York for the Heisman presentation.

    Counting the awards, the BEST Defensive player in the country... and no seat at the table.

    Disrespect not only to Donald, but to Defensive Players everywhere.

    PittofDreams

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  8. Congratulations again AD!!!

    Perhaps what's most amazing is that AD accomplished all this within this "defensive scheme".

    It just goes to show that if you have talent, work hard, and have desire and determination, that you'll succeed anywhere.

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  9. Congrats to A.D. Well-deserved recognition for a great season (and career) in a Pitt uniform. Bring home some more hardware Big Fella !

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  10. Congrats to A.D. he makes Panther fans very proud! I cringe at the thought of next year without him. Hopefully the young guys will step up.

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  11. donald is nice good luck to him glad for him and pitt but he is no hugh green dont get carred away hugh made all american 4 times 1 second team and 3 first team he did what he did for 4 years not just one year.

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    Replies
    1. I must have missed people saying he was at the level of Hugh Green. P

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    2. Tackle made by... Hugh...... Green.

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    3. Anonymous@ 8:26....Remember, it was...."Tackle made by #99....Hugh!!!....Green.

      Kudos once more to Aaron. He's deserving of all the accolades coming his way. It's almost impossible to quantify what he's meant to Pitt, and how sorely he'll be missed.

      Delete
  12. Next we will just how good AD was when the defense gets shredded game after game.

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  13. Well done yet again 97!! Was good to see the statistics compared to Suh. Not that comparisons mean too much. One can never recreate the exact circumstances of competition. That said, what he has done is terrific for a player that had few offers.

    One comment more before retiring for the evening. One of the prior scribes indicated that for once, he wants a highly ranked Pitt recruit that was Pitt's all the way. Mike Grimm is one such recruit this year. His early commitment kept his offers down and as such his stars were down. Let's see how he does but if it were me, I would have him jumping rope, working on his footwork every day.

    Thanks again 97!

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    Replies
    1. Unfortunately, some players get stars because of their size and potential.
      Grimm is 4 star because of his size. 6'6", 330ish
      Donald was 2/3 star because of his size. 6'0"
      But your right, Grimm needs to work on quickness and agility (footwork) and lose some weight and get stronger.

      Delete
    2. People need to stop with this Aaron Donald was a low rated guy stuff. I had him No.5 in the state. Most had him in the top 10. He was 4 star for most people. He was two-time first team all-state. He was not some little known gem that Pitt plucked. The only reason he didn't get more offers was because he was short and because Penn Hills was known at the time for doing a poor job of getting tapes out to college coaches.

      Delete
  14. Look how few people comment on Aaron Donald racking up every major award he could, while they spew left and right about Henry going to WVU.

    Even when people congratulate AD, others say he is no Hugh Green or well done for a small time recruit or just watch how bad we will be next year blah blah blah.

    The only thing that matters is Aaron Donald had an amazing season and he is getting all the national recognition he deserves. Can
    t wait to see where he gets drafted and wish him all the best. It was a great season getting to watch him play. Period.

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    Replies
    1. If you saw Hugh Green play, you would also say Aaron Donald is no Hugh Green. I hate that people are saying AD has 4 awards and Hugh max was 3 for forget that 2 of AD awards came out in the mid-90's. Anyone who tries to compare AD to Hugh, never saw Hugh play.
      Hugh was total domination for 4 years.

      AD was an elite recruit while in HS. I don't know where this 2star stuff is coming from. He didn't get as many offers because he was 6'0" and some coaches look at height a lot. If Chryst were HC, he would not have given AD an offer due to height.

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    2. I think most people realize that Green was on another level. And obviously nobody should say that Donald is better because he won more awards. I simply point out how many awards he won as a fact, not as proof that he's better than past greats.

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    3. You're comparing apples and oranges by comparing AD to Hugh Green. Two entirely different players, played entirely different positions. Green wins all four awards if all four were in existence at the time. Also take into consideration that Hugh Green won the Maxwell award, which goes to the best the player in college football, regardless of position. AD probably doesn't win that one, but wouldn't be surprised if he did.

      Surprising that AD could perform so well in a defensive scheme deemed to be awful by many, including one overblown recruit and his family.

      Mike W.

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    4. Hugh Green played on Pitt teams that played nobody. 2 tough games a year - and in fact from '79-'80 they didn't play ND… so make that 1 tough game a year.

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    5. John,
      Let me guess. You are under 30. Lol

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    6. John, Below is the 1979 schedule. Please note, no MAC teams and no YSU or ODU or subdivision teams.
      Kansas, UNC, Temple, BC, Cincy, Washington, Navy, Syracuse, WVU, Army, PSU, Arizona.

      Delete
    7. Outside of Washington and PSU - none were ranked. PSU was ranked 20th.

      Delete
  15. While I agree that Green was the best Pitt player I ever saw (including TD), this is no disrespect to Donald. It's kind of like saying that Lebron is no MJ .. or that Clapton is no Hendrix.

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    1. Whoa buddy.... you lost me with Clapton and Hendrix comparison.

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    2. I'm saying Clapton is really good but Hendrix was the best .... just like Donald compared to Green

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  16. Anonymous 11:46, you are an idiot wrapped up in a moron.

    It is like you want to take the kid down a peg immediately. You were probably the same guy that when McCutchen won the MVP you were screaming "he is no Clemente."

    You are completely missing the point.

    Appreciating the play of Donald doesn't hinder the man crush you have on Hugh Green one little bit. The point I was making is that there is no reason to debate whether Donald is on par with Hugh Green, but to simply appreciate what he did this season.

    Enjoying watching AD play this year and congratulating him on his success does none of the following.

    1.Imply that you are somehow cheating on the mysterious man love you have with Hugh Green.

    2. Confirm that you deep down have fond feelings for this coaching staff at Pitt.

    3. Give the impression that the stick firmly implanted in your asshole has slid out and rosy days are ahead.

    It simply shows that you can actually appreciate something good happening to the school you say you support.

    It seems like there are a chunk of guys on here who wouldn't be happy winning a national championship unless it is done with the greats of Pitts past grandkids and Johnny Majors the III at calling the game.

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    1. You obviously missed the point.
      Many are comparing Hugh to Donald based upon hardware.
      Many are saying Donald number should be retired.
      Although Donald is a good player, to compare him to Hugh is ridiculous.
      And yes, McCutcheon is no Clemente (yet!)
      Let me guess, you are less than 30 yrs old!!

      Delete
  17. Donald's number should be retired. There isn't even a question.

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    Replies
    1. I think Pitt retired any numbers let alone Donald's
      If they do, it should be limited. The only ones that probably should be retired are Goldberg, Ditka, Dorsett, Green, Marino.
      Fitz, Fralic, May, Schmidt should not have been retired.

      Delete
    2. Notre Dame nor Alabama retire numbers.
      I'm sure there are many other colleges that don't retire numbers.
      I oppose numbers being retired and quite frankly, Pitt with 9 retired numbers is ridiculous. 7 played after 1960 of which Pitt has only 1 National Championship!!

      Delete

  18. If Heisman voting were going on today... Donald would win it.

    PittofDreams

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  19. Anony 1:23 is right. Only the haters are trying to knock down AD for what he accomplished. Making up some pathetic outrage over imaginary comparisons or other issues just shows their level of hate for positive Pitt news. Amazing some are so low as to only try and cut others down.

    Congratulation AD. You play like a champion and are an example of the type of player PC wants representing the program.

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  20. this guy has it right (from another pitt site)

    I have long considered Pitt’s all-time greats as a point of pride for the University. Simply put, I put the University’s best against ANY program in the country. SC, Notre Dame, Alabama. You name it, the University’s best lines up against anybody, anytime.

    The retired jersey honor of the University is an even more elite class, reserved not only for the best, but those who have graduated as well. I get the game has changed a bit in the last several years; the dollars are just too overwhelming to not consider making the jump. But for those elite players that stay, or complete their degree after the fact, this is truly a special Fraternity. I like the University has this policy. In fact, I don’t view it as a policy but rather a special invitation to those who have truly embraced the idea of student/athlete.

    I realize (hope), no one is comparing AD’s past year and career to that of the great Hugh Green, but for contextual purposes, it is certainly worth reviewing some key statistics to provide a piece of the puzzle as to what all of this means. AD has had the misfortune of playing on some poor Pitt teams, poor competition, and overall lack of visibility over the last four years. In addition, he simply did not bring the A game for the big games this year. I’m not going to argue it, look it up yourself.

    Still, his recent hardware grab (aka the grab) brings the conversation to the table, this cannot be ignored. Four nationally respected awards forces an observer to ask the question, “Should AD’s number be retired?”

    One year does not make a career, but “the grab” is quite impressive. How does one measure whether or not he deserves this honor? Will fans 30 years from now say, “Wait, this guy Donald won 4 awards and his jersey is not retired?!” Or will they say, “AD was a good college player against mid-level college talent. We’ll house the awards, but number retirement is for the elite student/athlete.”

    Let’s look at the numbers, not as an exclusive review, but rather part of the consideration. Now, reviewing the facts, should AD’s number be put next to the true greats of the University?

    ******************

    category (team rank)

    sacks

    hg 49 (1st)

    ad 28.5 (4th)

    tackles (since 1973, tackles, assists, total)

    hg 273, 168, 441 (2nd)

    ad- 126,50,176 (nr)

    his team’s record at pitt

    hg 39-8-1 (three top ten finishes)

    ad 26-25 (nr)

    his team’s record in bowls at pitt

    hg 3-1

    ad 1-2 (one more to play)

    awards

    hg 3xAll American, Lombardi, Maxwell, Walter Camp Award winner. Second in Heisman, unprecented for a purely defensive player.

    ad 1xAll American, Lombardi, Bednarik, Outland, Nagurski Award winner. ACC Defensive Player of Year.

    drafted

    hg 7th overall, 1st round

    ad (tbd)

    NFL

    hg 2 pro bowls with Tampa, 11 year nfl career

    ad (tbd)

    Notes:

    hg was the first defensive player to win the Walter Camp Award. The Bednarik and Nagurski Awards did not exist during hg’s time. Pitt was independent so no conference awards were available. hg is in the College Football Hall of Fame.

    Pitt’s Special Fraternity here:

    link to pittsburghpanthers.com

    ****************

    Comment by scoocher 12.13.13 @ 8:27 pm

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    1. Very nice.
      Frankly, you are right. Those numbers that are retired should have spent 4yrs at Pitt and have a Pitt degree.
      Which is why Fitz number should NOT have been retired after only a 2yr career and no degree. I believe that was done for promotion purposes of Pitt entering the ACC and creating hype.

      Hugh Green had his number retired at his last game his Senior season.

      Delete
  21. I had an issue with Fitz's number required and not only because he only played 2 years. His number was retired less than 2 weeks after Nordy prevented Tra Chapman from returning to school for assaulting a woman ... the very same thing the wife of Ftiz's child accused him of a few years back (and in fact has a restraining order issued.)

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    1. They're not exactly the same situation. Chapman was arrested and charged with assault and unlawful restraint, and pled guilty to attempted assault. He then served a short jail sentence.

      Fitzgerald did have a restraining order placed against him, but from what I can find, he was not arrested or charged by the police. I'm not even sure a police report was filed. Also, it was not his wife, it was the mother of his child, who admits to swinging on him first.

      If Fitzgerald did indeed hit her, I'm not condoning it. I'm just saying the cases aren't exactly the same.

      Delete
  22. maybe the Univ of Phoenix should retire Fitz's number

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  23. Chris, regarding the basketball game today vs YSU. Do you think Panther's lack of defense against quality guards will be a concern during ACC games?

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    Replies
    1. No. The Pitt defense is still much better than most.

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    2. I would guess with Pitt scoring much more they do not have to be as great as they used to be

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  24. Chris, watched the AAA title game last night. Andre Robinson of McDevitt is a stud.RB.. speed, power, and a big body already at 205 lbs as a soph. Looks like Pitt has offered already. Quick question - are past or current ex Pitt NFL'rs involved in the Pitt program these days at all? Come back to see games, etc? With Shady being from Mcdevitt and tearing up the NFL this year for eagles... wonder if shady can help sway this kid to Pitt.

    Lastly, as I looked up some other D1 players in the game, looks like Rutgers is on many of their lists which surprises me. Guess they recruit the eastern part of the state hard. Doesn't seem to be making a difference :)

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  25. Pitt Basketball.
    We talk about it every year. Strength of Schedule.
    Pitt SOS is now ranked 301 out of 350 per Sagarin. Only 3 other ACC teams have worse SOS.
    That is why Pitt is not ranked in Top 25 yet and won't be until they play somebody.

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    1. According to Andy Katz, Ohio State was supposed to play in the Legends Tourney in Brooklyn, but switched to Gotham. For the B10+2-ACC challenge, the conferences scheduled Penn State -- not in Pitt's control. Katz also reported that Pitt attempted to schedule home and homes with Nova and Georgetown and both declined. Katz speculated that teams don't want to play at the Pete.

      If you believe Katz, Pitt's low SOS isn't exactly Pederson and Dixon's fault.

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    2. LOL.
      Since when did you start believing what the media says?
      WVU would jump at a home and home, for instance. I'm sure there are others.
      How is it that all these other schools can do it.. ie. UNC, Duke, Kentucky, Syracuse, Arizona, Michigan, etc. Playing at any of their home courts is not paradise you know.
      Dixon is targeting a very short list for recruiting purposes or basically from the Boston to DC corridor. Sounds great but he still needs to land better games. I would start with the old Big East teams. UConn, St. John, Seton Hall, Rutgers, Providence, etc.

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    3. I took a look at Duke's schedule for the past two years, and they haven't played an OOC opponent on that team's court in the past two years either.

      I'll pose this question: if you were Kentucky's coach, were would you rather play a game - at Pitt or at North Carolina?

      Just a guess, but you'd probably still be calling the OOC schedule weak if Providence, Rutgers, etc were on it. And I'm pretty sure if the media said Pitt and Dixon were ducking those games, you'd believe them.

      The Katz story passes the smell test enough for me to believe that it could be true. I really don't care enough otherwise, though for the record I would like to see a legit OOC home game and away game on the schedule each year,

      Delete
    4. Calipari would schedule Pitt due to his Pittsburgh ties.
      Bad question. But ESPN may be throwing lots of money their way also for a home and home.
      Arizona with Miller would schedule home and home.
      There are lots of teams Pitt can try to get a home and home series but they don't or won't. They want to do the NYC tourneys, which is fine, but who knows who you get at those.

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    5. Anon 8:43 --

      Andy Katz vs. The Voices Inside Your Head.

      Katz wins.

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    6. Since 2009 (Calapari's first season), here are the teams Kentucky has played OOC in the other team's building:
      Louisville
      North Carolina
      Indiana
      Notre Dame

      One is an in-state rival, and the next two are blue bloods. Notre Dame was part of the Big East-SEC challenge, so it really doesn't count.

      Use some common sense. I doubt Kentucky would play Pitt home and home - even with Calapari - because, despite Pitt's reputation, Kentucky doesn't gain a whole lot from it. It's a much better risk-reward for them to play North Carolina. Pitt, on the other hand, I think would gladly take a home-and-home with Kentucky. The name recognition of Kentucky should tell you that.

      You may have a better point with Arizona.
      Still, Pitt could schedule and beat Kentucky, Michigan State, Kansas, and UCLA on the road and the trolls would still be asking about the Final Four.

      Delete
  26. Hi Chris,

    Do you happen to know if any other player has won all four major defensive awards -- Lombardi, Bednarik, Nagurski and Outland trophies -- in the same year before?

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  27. Pitt BB still gets no respect in the polls.
    AP put them at #27 the week of 12/16.
    They are sending a signal to Dixon regarding his powderpuff schedule. Its not just a signal, some have said they won't vote Pitt into top 25 until league play begins!! Ouch!

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  28. Dixon's goals for the season are not and should not be to be ranked on 12/16. That is immaterial. Would it be a nice byproduct? Sure. But to wring your hands because Pitt isn't ranked on Dec 16 is a colossal waste of time.

    ACC scheduling will take care of SOS and everything will sort itself out.

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    1. Sure it matters. It helps prepare for league play.
      You must have a short memory of what happened last season the first few games in the Big East.
      Also, this year, ACC is s down year so Pitt will need some quality wins in ACC league play or they will get terrible seeding for NCAA.

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  29. It would be nice for Pitt to play better non conference schedule but who cares the only polls that matter is at the end of the season where we make up for lost time because how brutal the ACC will be. Kentucky plays a tough non conference because the SEC is very weak & they need to boost up SOS.

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  30. Nicholson announcing Thursday. Anyone care to guess where he lands?

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    1. He should do his homework a little better if he is thinking MSU. They have at least two safeties in this incoming class and one of the 4 stars has two brothers already on the team. That would not bode well for Nicholson. Add to that Demetrious Cox and the chances of seeing the field early are slim. These kids need game reps and need to study film and the two deep of the university they choose. Spent a week at MSU this summer. Not a nice place. Perhaps it was just the arrogance of the Michigan folk. They aren't "burghers", which does make a difference.

      Scout missed leveon bell at 2 stars and Darqueze dennard at MSU as a 2 star as well. Not sure where he decides to go. My point is that the kids and the parents need to do their homework before choosing.

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    2. You're right Talentevaluator...
      In doing his homework, he will see MSU is going to the Rose Bowl.
      Pitt is going to Detroit!!
      Elite players are looking to go to colleges that give them the best exposure, the best competition, and the best coaching to put them in the best position for the NFL. You can't say that about the Pitt defense.

      Delete
    3. The team may go to the rose bowl, but if the player is on the bench, what good is it? That is not exposure for the player, but for the team. Nickle backs and back ups usually don't get drafted.

      You can hate on Pitt right now all you want. I could care less. The point is that the kids need to go where they can play. The NFL finds you when you have tape in gameday situations, not practice film. I disagree with you on elite players wanting to go to elite programs. Some do and that is fine. Many don't. Let's see what happens to Foster when a couple more 4 and 5 star Louisianna, Alabama and Florida recruits show up at Alabama next year. He either hits the field and beats them out or he goes away. I hope he beats them out but the odds are just as good that he is relegated to the bench. If he goes to the bench, he will have wished he did his homework. If he succeeds, then he will have made the right choice.

      Funny, but if you look at Andrew Johnson who was a can't miss prospect several years ago and picked Miami over Pitt. At Pitt, he sees the field day one. In Miami, he got lost on the depth chart and never did anything substantial. He did have a minor injury one year. Talk to the kid face to face and he will tell you he made a mistake. Talk to him from the press and he will tell you he would do it all again the same way. It cuts both ways fella and that is why your statements lack depth. I did spend a week on the MSU campus this summer and my sense is that the Bullough family ties are much stronger than the Nicholson ties, but that is just my impression. I could be wrong on relationship building. I just wouldn't advise my son to get involved in family politics.

      If you look at the number one picks for the last few drafts, the majority are three stars. The Steelers number one pick was a two star by scout!

      Delete
    4. All you need are 2 years as a starter.
      Doesn't need to be a starter for 4 years.
      "Many" elite players "don't" want to go to an elite program? Define many. It's the exact opposite. Just look at the recruiting. The other thing is who is the HC and assistants.

      Keep in mind, Henry didn't pick Pitt and the GA for DB's (Poteat) played with Revis. That is very telling. I'm sure Revis gave his opinion of Poteat and the videoguy Pitt calls DC.

      Delete
  31. That might be true, but I think it has more to do with the over-evaluation of teams at the beginning of the season than their schedule. Really as you look at the teams ahead of Pitt, who deserves to be behind them. UCLA sure, Iowa, not sure why they are there. But after that it is pretty much just the Zags who started at 15, Kansas who was a former number 1 and Kentucky who was a former number 1. I am not saying the Panthers aren't good and that heck they might be a top 10 team right now, but the preseason rankings gauged on a bunch of incoming freshman and how they might play seem to weigh heavily on everyone's minds when voting. Just can't seem to drop Kentucky out of the top 25 because they have so much potential. Stupid but that is the way many writers and coaches think. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter, Pitt just needs to keep winning and playing good basketball.

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  32. @ talent evalu8r:

    I don't know where you get your info, but your posts makes a lot of sense and are usually well crafted, with logical info. I'm betting Nicholson does go to MSU but I hope I'm wrong and I also doubt he did that research. Tell any 18 yr old he won't become a starter and most would call you crazy.

    Would be interesting to see all the elite WPIAL talent leave for bigger/better programs that didn't see the field or were only special teams players.

    Anyway, good post.

    VAYinzer

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    Replies
    1. The question to ask is:
      How many wpial elite players that went to elite programs, were they drafted to the NFL?
      That is what the elite players have an eye on. Will this program develop me and put me in the position to get drafted by the NFL.
      Now, how many players got drafted by the NFL the last 2 years out of Pitt?
      How many out of MSU? etc.

      Delete
  33. Who cares? Stop acting like local players are the best in the country and a must get. It simply is not true.

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    Replies
    1. You are living in lala land.
      If Pitt can't land the elite out of wpial, where are they going to get them.
      If you think Pitt will be successful without elite, I have a bridge to sell you.
      How is 6-6 the last 2 years?

      Delete
    2. Yeah, that local guy Aaron Donald really sucks. Pitt should have let him go to Toledo.

      MC

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  34. Pitt is not a national program at the moment so they need the top kids in western PA or they will have no success. Period, end of story.

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    1. Chris what are thoughts on other writers on rivals or scout that say wpial athletes on Pitts roster trashing the program to recruits. Is this a knock on the whole staff, just the HC, or is it disgruntled non starters ? Any idea who might it be?

      Delete
    2. I've mentioned months ago on twitter that it was happening.

      Delete
    3. First I heard of it was Henry's mom.
      I wouldn't call it "trashing" the program, just questioning the Defensive coaches tactics, etc. However, don't put your head in the sand, everyone trashed the hire of House as DC and obviously the wpial recruits on the defense side of the ball heard about it.

      Delete
    4. Recruits don't give a crap about what fans think. They actually know the coaches, unlike the fans. They like, or dislike, them, on their own.

      Delete
    5. I remember the tweet, good job.

      Delete
  35. Pitt is never going to be a national program. It's tiny recruiting budget will prevent that from happening for starters. I sure hope in 2016, Chryst's fifth year, if Pitt goes 7-5 it doesn't fire him. Pitt plays Penn State, Oklahoma State, Miami and Clemson. That's down the road I realize, but if the past is any indication those will be four losses.

    Since Pitt doesn't want to spend or bring in questionable kids who are talented, it better be happy with 7- or 8-win seasons.

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  36. Speaking of "top kids" in the WPIAL.

    By the numbers, Brett Brumbaugh of South Fayette is a "great" WPIAL quarterback... and one who will find a place for himself somewhere.

    Highly unlikely that place is going to be Pitt.

    Not to take anything away from Brett's accomplishments, but his mechanics and the the kind of ball he throws could be a problem...unless he's able to make some dramatic changes.

    Brumbaugh just doesn't jump off the tape at you as much as the two kids Pitt has coming in next year, Betke and Freebeck.

    PittofDreams

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    1. Brett has some of the measurables to be D1. Is it BCS D1, I don't know.
      He is 6'4" and 200#. He needs to hit the weightroom and do the QB camps and college camps. He has the stats.
      What I don't get is Cosentino out of CC going to FSU. I don't get how he is rated so high by the rivals either.

      Delete

  37. @ talent evalu8r

    Curious, if you've heard of the NFL Combine, Post Season All-Star Games, NFL Training Camps, and the Canadian Football League?

    The answer would seem to be "no" given your contention that 4 or 5 Star Players are better off to choose mediocre programs where they are guaranteed immediate playing time rather than ELITE programs where they are guaranteed a chance to compete for playing time.

    There are ample opportunities for 4 or 5 Stars with the RIGHT MEASURABLES to get looked at or even some playing time after failing to see the field while in school for whatever reason.

    Your stance on this issue also ignores the underlying reason 4 or 5 Star kids usually choose the ELITE Programs. Frankly, they believe they are the BEST and want to compete against the BEST.

    Would a Coach want a kid who doesn't feel this way?

    Besides, should things not work out regading playing time... there is a little thing called a "transfer" that a kid might take advantage of.

    Hope this helps.

    PittofDreams

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    Replies
    1. Heya Pitt o. I would suggest re-eading my post. Nowhere did I say that 4 or 5 stars should go to mediocre programs. My point was and will continue to be, that kids and their parents need to study depth charts and relationships before committing to programs.

      Apparently kids get invited to the nfl combine. No that's not the case. Not every kid with measurable as you put it, gets invited. The number of invites is limited. Kids don't get to go to college all star games because they run a 4.4. They get there on merit and by seeing the field. Last year it was Kugler. I didn't care if Kugler went to Pitt or Michigan. What I did suggest is that Michigan had 8 4 stars in his class and the year before. That makes it more difficult to see the field. It is mathematics 101. He could be the third best guard out of that group and never see the field. That would be a bad choice in my opinion. He could pick his college and it would be better in my opinion to pick a place where you are going to play, unless you are only there for the education. If that's the case, go to Yale. lol

      The main point was research your future because it is your future. That is what an agent does for kids in all sports. They look at the best fit for their client in many cases. You clearly listen to the Saban approach to recruiting which is if you want to be the best, you compete against the best. Saban has to use that approach because he gets the best. What other approach would he use? Hey kid, come here and you will see the field early. C'mon, if you want to criticize the message do better than that. Lets use Saban.signs four star AJMcCarron in 2009 (rank 17). In 2010 he signs 5 star Phillip Sims (rank 2).McCarron wins national championship in Freshman year and says to Sims " son, in ordr to be the best you need to compete against the best". Kid commits and sits. Saban won't bench the qb that won him a championship. The new kid gets lost when in all reality, had he been advised properly, he would have committed elsewhere to a university where he could see the field. If you don't see what I was trying to say Pitto, you missed it.

      Finally, I didn't say either foster or henry or Nicholson should go to Pitt. What I did say is that the kids need to do some homework. If the kids don't, the parents need to. That was the point in my notes above, nothing more, nothing less.

      Delete
    2. @Talent 9:10
      The point you made in your last paragraph is the same thing Henry's parents said they did, HOMEWORK. Henry's mom seems to be a straight shooter who just wants the best for her son and she said she got that from the recruiter and defensive back coach at West Virginia. Sounds like the Pitt staff defensively is lacking a few things...
      1. Experience
      2. Expertise
      3. Getting players to buy into the system
      4. Leadership
      5. Earning the players' trust.
      If Nicholson, another backyard gem leaves the city, he would add to the list of defensive players to go. Henry, Hooker, Winovich, and Fields all chose otherwise. Nicholson is the last one gem left defensively. Time will tell the tale.

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    3. Good point Anony 1:59.
      Pitt is not going to land "all" of the top players out of Wpial. I think many would agree Pitt needs to land 50% of the top players.
      This year, the top 8 in my opinion are:
      Nicholson, Henry, Bookser, McKenzie, Grimm, Winovich, Apke, Hooker.
      Pitt need to land 4 of these 8 players.
      So far, Pitt landed 1 with 3 yet to decide.
      If you can't land the top players from your backyard, what do you think are the chances from other states. The reason for Haering hire was to recruit wpial. Anything less than 4 requires Haering to be fired. If Pitt lands 4, then I would consider that good.

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    4. Anonymous @1:59am....I'd take what Mrs. Henry said with a grain of salt. It sounds like she bought a boatload of BS, and her comments regarding Pitt were unnecessary and lacked class. And who cares what the mother of a WVU commit says? For all we know, she was just saying those things to rationalize her son's choice and protect him from local criticism.

      It would stand to reason that the negative information she heard about Pitt came from a few disgruntled people, and that most of the players are fine with the D coach and system.

      Fact is, we don't really know the full story.

      Delete
    5. If they did their homework, he wouldn't be going to WVU either, Joe.

      Holgorsen's and Gibson's track record on defense isn't very good.

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    6. Double Anonymous...BamDecember 18, 2013 at 2:25 PM

      Winovich and Hooker going to top programs and institutions is not problematic for Pitt. The sexy pick is always attractive to some and only time will tell if they see the field and are successful at those programs. Interestingly, OSU received a verbal from another top WR from Florida last night which could be problematic for Hooker. That makes 5 four star receivers committed to OSU for this class. It will be problematic for at least three of them and probably 4 at a minimum when you add in the 2013 class of a 5 star and 2 four stars.

      Fields apparently caused his own misfortune or fortune by waiting too long to pull the trigger at Pitt. A numbers game, no problem there.

      With regard to your shot at the Pitt DC versus Gibson, let's look at that because it is interesting. Gibson has a track record of not staying anywhere long and if you look at his major university employment history, it reveals just that. Before you jump on that statement, I would say that coaches do move alot but the best head coaches take their best assistants with them when they leave, if possible. Gibson has been dumped by his last three head coaches. That should tell any parent all they need to know about the quality of experience (not just years of experience) of that particular coach. You can be an investment manager or attorney with 30 years of experience and be worse than someone with two years of experience. Years does not equate to success necessarily.

      If I was Pitt or any other university, I would get back in touch with Hooker to make sure he is still committed and explain the numbers game. Not to scare the recruit but to provide guidance.

      You are arguing really hard against the current Pitt staff who just happened to be here when a defensive lineman has won every award one can win defensively. They must be doing something right to put the best player in position to succeed. You just don't get that at WV right now. Sorry. Those are just facts. I didn't compare records, points per game, ypg with the respective head coaches at the two schools, but I am sure it is interesting. Programmatically and realistically, the better opportunity to win is with Pitt if comparing Pitt and WVU. One only needs to compare programs and conferences. Perhaps it works out well for the WV recruits. I am agnostic with programs, but pro kids. They all get sold a bill of goods and most of the time, they don't even know it is happening. Would Dorian Bell choose Ohio State again? He was a 5 star, can't miss prospect. Had he stayed local, with parental oversight, my sense is the result would have been different.

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    7. Hooker is recruited for DB at OSU.
      Don't use Gateway players for comparison or examples. Terry Smith did a good job marketing them and blowing smoke. Most are overrated.
      Donald was a Wanny recruit who committed to Pitt early therefore he didn't get as many offers. Donald work ethic (weight room, etc) has a lot to do with his success and not Breckerfield.
      Do you see Breckerfield name being mentioned when there is a Dline coach slot available at some bigtime college?? NO. Not even a sniff.

      Delete
    8. @Double anonymous
      1. Hooker is going to OSU as a free safety
      2. AD was brought to Pitt by the DC and safety coaches at WVU, Coach Patterson and Coach Gibson respectively. They started AD as a true freshman and he's been causing havoc ever since.
      3. Coach Patterson, as a DC at Pitt under Todd Graham, had Pitt ranked 3rd in the nation defensively, they have not reached those heights since he's left.
      4. Fields has the same measurables as AD coming out of high school, same accolades as well. As talent evalu8r stated earlier, a person must do their homework and Fields did. Pitt is crowded at DT and has 6 in Fields position not including the 2 in the 2014 class. WVU hasn't had any DT recruits since 2011. Three in his position have graduated. They consistently rotated 6 last year. Fields goes into camp already on the 2 deep chart. So, not rushing and committing to Pitt worked to his advantage.
      5. What Gateway player has not come out of high school OVERRATED?

      Delete

    9. Buying into the sales pitch of Tony Gibson and a Head Coach who could be one year away from being shown the door... hardly equates to doing "HOMEWORK."

      Looks pretty obvious that Gibson's Hard Sell and Rushel Shell were the difference in why Henry jumped to Morgantown.

      PittofDreams

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    10. POD,
      I think Henry was pissed he didn't get a 3 for 1 deal like Boyd and felt disrespected.
      Although Fields had an offer, it was pulled in the summer as Pitt met its quota. Fields was very high on Pitt.
      So, Henry had no reason to go to Pitt when Fields offer was pulled. Seemed he wanted at least 1 of his teammates to join him. That sort of started when Terry Smith of Temple offered 4 Quip players.

      Delete

    11. Makes sense.

      PittofDreams

      Delete
    12. Annon @ 3:09pm, you don't know what you are talking about.

      Aaron Donald was recruited and signed by Dave Wannstedt.
      Committed April 2009, signed February 2010. Played as a reserve as a true freshman in Wannstedt's final season.


      Not sure where you get this 3rd ranked defense bit.
      Points allowed : 33rd (4th in the Big East)
      Yards allowed: 41st (4th in the Big East)
      Defensive Efficiency: 24th (4th in the Big East)

      http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/stats/byteam?cat1=defense&cat2=Total&conference=I-A_all&year=2011&sort=1124

      http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feidef2011

      Delete
  38. Shai McKenzie to decide on Friday. Him and Montes could make or break this years class.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't think anyone would disagree with you there.
      Definitely need Monte since missing out on Henry.
      Shai, Pitt has James coming in and I read Leggett is waiting for Shai to decide. Not as big a deal if we miss out on Shai.
      However, need either Kamara or Jennings.
      Bookser would be the cherry on top.

      Delete
    2. It's always a big deal if you miss out on a top local talent like McKenzie.

      Delete
    3. Have to get the top kids in wpial and expand out. Do you think OSU lets other schools get the tops kids from Columbus, I don't think so.

      Delete
    4. After whiffing on Henry, if we lose MN and Shai, maybe its time for the staff, starting with the head coach to start spending more time in his back yard.

      Delete
    5. A lot of coaches on this staff are. Not liked by most players. Word of this has leaked and could keep the top locals away. Half of our staff should not be coaching at the bcs level.

      Delete
    6. Who are the most in most players? Give names. Shell, Carswell, Williams and whoever else got kicked to the curb. Not sure if it was a whiff on Henry. If he wasn't fully committed, he should go elsewhere. 80% committed will not bring the program success. So should the staff be in the backyard or florida or wherever the next 4 star commits to another program for the day? Which half shouldn't be coaching and what is that based upon? You kids are funny. Trolls are really funny.

      I am sure Aaron Donald is leaking negativity all over the place. Bahahahaha.

      Delete
  39. Chris, I guess this is the blue print to beat Pitt basketball slow it down, get out rebound, get cold from the outside, really have no inside presence, miss critical FT at the end & the refs swallow their whistle. Your thoughts?

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  40. Speaking of "HOMEWORK."

    Mr. Talent Evalu8tr... here's something that might help you better understand the REALITY of how the NFL goes about its job of evaluating talent.

    Based upon your response to my comment above, you've obviously never heard of the NFL Regional Combines.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000274249/article/nfl-announces-2014-regional-combine-schedule

    PittofDreams

    ReplyDelete
  41. For what its worth, mike vukovkan, kdka, just tweeted that bookser just committed to Pitt.

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  42. I swear your critical reading skills are lacking. Please note....more and more teams are starting to send scouts.....not all do and not most do. READ Grasshopper and learn. Don't spew and hope.

    The link is the only reality you presented. The article also reads (in addition to what I put forth above), that the regionals give opportunities for those not drafted and out of football an opportunity. You shouldn't take a water pistol to a gun fight grasshopper. When you can back it up with facts, come play with the big boys. There is nothing wrong with my statements. They weren't anti-anybody. Just a different way of looking at recruiting. More precise in the decisioning process.

    Data analytics is quickly becoming the wave of the future, not used car salescoaches. Parents will start seeing this data. Would it surprise you to know that over the last ten years under Coach Saban, only 19% of his freshman recruiting classes were still on the roster as seniors? Would you be surprised to know that I made that statistic up and you actually believed it and went WOW? The point is that statistics like this will be used in recruiting in the coming years with some hi-tech universities already doing so. It will not be viewed as negative recruiting, just factual information for parents to help kids. Unless you are around big programs daily, you haven't a clue as to what's next or how things really work. Good day mate!

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  43. There are plenty of "national programs" that are NOT in an area with great high school football recruits. Therefore, they do not have local talent to keep home but somehow they became "national programs". Wisconsin, Michigan State...there are tons of them.
    There are great football players locally, but there are players just as good in all the surrounding states and the rest of the country. It is nice to keep them home, but losing a few isn't going to kill the program. Wannstedt was a good local recruiter...where did it get Pitt?
    Everyone freaked over Shell leaving. Seems to me the coaches found someone just as good in Connor in Erie.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Pitt isn't Wisconsin and Michigan State, two programs that spend a lot more money than Pitt. Nobody said that no program can be a national program without a strong local recruiting base, but for Pitt that's definitely the case.

      Delete
  44. I agree to a point. Sure, they need to grab a portion of the best players but how many times do we hear or read someone is a must get. If Chryst wasn't getting any local kids I would say that is the case but he is getting a decent amount. Plenty of kids out there with talent. I'd be more upset losing out on Chris James than McKenzie.

    ReplyDelete